Keeping The Great Lakes Great
 

Seeing as how a fairly large percentage of members boat on the Great Lakes and connected waterways, I was wondering if anyone had any reaction to these proposed budget cuts for waterway preservation – from $300 million to $10 million.

Rather than focus on the pure political aspect (hard to avoid, I know) I’m interested in what members really think is important. How much is enough when it comes to ensuring we can rely on things like clean water, not having toxic algae or feces floating around when you’re out for a swim…or not having an Asian Carp smack you in the face at 50mph…

Truth be told, I think we sometimes overdo it when it comes to protecting animal habitats, but I suppose fishermen and duck hunters have different views, and I respect those views.

Is $300 million too much? Is $10 million enough? I’m not big on EPA over-regulation, either – but this really is an issue that touches our boating. What kind of things should the government (state or local) be doing to protect the waters where we play? I’d just like to hear the views of OSO members—who really use our lakes and rivers—over “activists” who haven’t put a toe in a lake for years.

Interesting discussion but I need to educate myself on the subject more. Do you have any links to articles you could share?

Off the top of my head I feel the Great Lakes are one of our countries BEST natural wonders, words can not describe how lucky we are to have them in America.

I would prefer the Great Lakes being over regulated. We have an uncanny ability to screw things up when we try to rationalize why we attempt to change things we didn't create.

Well - here are a few. A Google News search for Great Lakes is probably best. Toughest thing to do is try to blend sources so you get a broad viewpoint.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...unds/98876962/

http://eriemedia.ca/great-lakes-st-l...ed-u-s-budget/

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/...uard_cuts.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...305-story.html

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...py-budget.html

http://buffalonews.com/2017/03/03/ch...s-restoration/

Might add - having been up to Traverse / Torch / Charlevoix area many times, I'd hate to see anything negatively impact the natural beauty of that area. One of my favorite places in the world!

I believe we need to spend whatever it takes to keep the Great Lakes clean and free from the asian carp invasion. I am afraid the government will do too little too late.

Speaking of Asian Carp, I just hope and pray they never make it to my home lake.

I say do whatever it takes to prevent carp from existing in the great lakes.

I'm all for being a good steward of our environment. I am around the water all summer long, swimming, playing, boating (other peoples boats for the time being), I mountain bike in the woods/hills. I ski all winter...at least I used to, it doesn't seem to snow here in New England anymore. When I'm not working I'm outside, I'd like it to be pristine for all to enjoy.

I'd rather see the money go to our environment rather than the Paki's, Saudi's, et al.

My view, take for what it is.
I want things to be nice as well, I enjoy the great Lakes. I have a cabin near the apostle islands and have boated there for a long time.
Let's not confuse money with keeping things nice!
What do we get for 300 million?
How efficiently does the government spending your and my money?
How much is wasted on dumb things?
Just like most things, there is a effective amount of money you get your best bang for your buck and that's when the most efficient things are happening for the least amount of money then there is the over spending which causes your bang for the buck to sky rocket. The issue with most government agencies is they don't see that. They get a appetite for money and every year more money! Then they get people convinced if you cut our funding by 10 dollars everything is going to go to crap. They want to get you to believe they are the only reason things are good and if you cut any money from there budget we can't survive. Pure scare tactics, that's why you never see a government budget get cut, they scare people so they can get more of your money!
The great Lakes were great before we spent 300 million a year on them. Don't let them scare you, the great Lakes will still be great if we spend 50 million on them efficiently and cut out the waste and fraud.

I knew Erie had some serious issues with toxic algae, but never knew we spent 300million a year on keeping the lakes clean. Hate to imagine what it will look like without cleaning it then...

On the carp, we need an open a season ruling on those suckers. They haven't made it up the Ohio River to my area yet, but if they do my buddies and I will break out the shotguns. My contacts at DNR say you can't shoot fish with a gun. I'll bet we could shoot a boat load of them with the right outboard tuned in... Just give me a couple grand for shells and fuel.. lol

^^ This. I've been working at various federal government agencies over the last 30+ yrs. and you would not believe what goes on at these places.

How much is wasted on dumb things? Practically all the gov't budget however there are other areas I'd whack first before something that's helping our playground.

Ww

I believe we need to do a better job stewarding the lakes. That being said, after briefly looking into these cuts I could not find much about if or what that 300 million had been earmarked for or actually spent on. What I have seen over the years is a lot of money being spent on "studies" that come to various conclusions but very little spent to mitigate or fix problems.

In our area there are 2 major issues, sewage overflows from municipalities and agricultural runoff. Very little has been done about either for many years. IF we get major spending on infrastructure hopefully some of it will go to sewers etc and help with the overflow. As for the ag stuff, there are a few voluntary programs to minimize erosion that actually pay good money but very few participating.

Ayuh,... Agreed,... The bulk of that 300 million is goin' to "Grants" to finance the lifestyles of "Researchers",...
Darn little goes to actually doin' any cleanin' of the great ponds,...
I own a couple of houses on Lake Ontario,...
The water is cleaner now, than it's been in the last 100 years,...
I'm very comfortable at 10 million, Vs; 300 million,....

Personally, I have a Huge problem with the new water management plan, 2014D,...
The current water management plan, 1958D, has 'em targetin' 2' above, 'n 2 ' below the wanted Average,...
With this plan, My water levels occasionally flood my water front, but is usually Ok, til August or September when it drops to the low point of the year,...
If the lows were pushed back to October would be just fine with me, as pullin' boats can be a problem with the levels we now get,....
The usual excuse is, they need more water in Montreal at that point, so they let more water out through the Moses dam,....
Well,....
The Enviro-terrorists have convinced the elites that the fish have all died off, because the water levels are to stable,...
Which of course is Bullship,.... Tons of fish, 'n Great fishin', both in the lake, 'n on the river,...

Anyways, if 2014D becomes the new rule, water levels are gonna range 3' above, 'n 3' below average,....
3' above average will flood my ground floor of my 1st house, 'n possibly the 2nd,....
3' below average will make it absolutely Impossible to get a boat to a launch ramp,....
It'll cause an estimated 2 Billion bucks of damage, Every year, to properties along Lake Ontario's south shore,...
'n of course, it'll cause the values of my houses to plummet,...
I'll be lucky to get out of 'em, what I paid for 'em,.....

Canada should kick in some money as well...it is their problem also. Trump is the guy that could press them. The Asian carp thing is downright scary, even if it costs 300 million I am all for it.

I just wonder how it became fashionable to decry anything that mentions environment but the largest chunk of the budget by far is defense and it's taboo? No waste there right?

Burst pipeline is my fear. Why does a foreign pipeline going from Canada and to Canada run underneath Lake Michigan ?

Near my house the Dearborn resident Jet skiers are worse than any Asian Carp video........

I understand this concern, but why no outcry about the ongoing pollution issues? Every time we get heavy rains hundreds of millions of gallons of raw or partially treated sewage gets dumped in the lakes. Very few seem to care, we get a notification on the back page of the paper, beaches closed a few days, then back to business as usual.

http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/maco...-lake-st-clair

I have not looked into much of this but it keeps showing up on my feed. It seems like we have some things that need to be cleaned up with our waste water discharge.

http://www.michigan.gov/deq/0,4561,7...715---,00.html

You St. Clair guys know about the polluted canal between 10 mile and Michigan Harbor ?

Good points about stopping the run off. Algae can't grow without something feeding it, so somewhere there is a huge source of nitrogen that needs cut off. Canada doesn't feel the effects like say Port Clinton, cause wind is blowing offshore for most of their coast line.

The silver carp however could be a cure for the algae blooms. Ya know those are raised over here as grass carp correct? Same fish ya put in a pond to eat algae... However according to my ODNR buddies again, they must be certified sterile before sold by the hatcheries. I lost 5 to a big flood some years back, all ended up in the Ohio. Before buying any more, I inquired about that being a source of them in the rivers.

I saw a presentation by the Army Corps of Engineers 2 years ago with the results of their 5 year study on the Asian carp problem. Their proposal was to spend $15 billion over 25 YEARS.
I walked out. We're screwed.

We have the same kinda thing happing in Louisiana. But they seem to screw up more then help.

Agree, huge problem even on the coastal waters out here. Also fertilizer run-off from farming, I know that it's been affecting the Chesapeake for a while now. I'm aware it's been a publicized issue there and it's affecting the commerce of the watermen big time. Wondering if any of the Chesapeake crew could comment on the issue.

Fish farms are the next man made problem.

I’d like to know more about where the Federal money goes too. Little or nothing goes to cities that are trying to fix their sewer overflow problems. We are trying to get the Cuyahoga River cleaned up, (it’s far better than it was) and to do that Akron is spending about $1.1 billion (yes billion) over the next 10 years to solve its 100-year old combined sewer problem. The EPA hands out a court-ordered consent decree but the Federal Government provides absolutely no financial support. There are about 700 cities with the same problem nationwide.

Some of that Federal money could go a long way to help ease the burden – especially for older homeowners on a limited income who are seeing their local sewer/water bills soar to pay for the EPA mandate. I don’t mind paying a fair share to keep the river (and Lake Erie) clean. It’s tough on some of the older folks, though. Enough with spending money on endless “studies”…

Send a few platoons of Marines from the bloated military budget to the board rooms of some of these corporations and it'll get cleaned up real fast. I think we all know that anyone can take a position, so if a study comes out corporations come up with a defense, tie it up in courts, and let the lobbyists go to work. It's really not that complicated, get rid of the lobbying efforts and this country does a 180.

Don't be scared. It hasn't leaked a drop in sixty plus years. The greens want to do everything possible to stop fossil fuel and this is just another well funded and well publicized scare tactic. Shut it down and they will just ship it by truck, train and boat. Then we'll see how much ends up in the water.

There is waste and fraud in all areas of government!
Apparently you don't like the military looking at your responses.
All branches of government do the same thing, lobby for more money to get more things they want in pork.
The facts are we spend way more than we should to get next to zero results in so many areas of government.
And it's our money given to the government.
If you were spending 300 million out of your pocket are you content with the results your getting?
How about if you cut out all the pork research crap that ties up most of that money and just spend money on actually doing something and solve a problem!

This is all agencies across the usa

The fact of the matter is we can all talk till we are blue in the face about it but until there are people in there that want to listen we are just blowing smoke up are a$$es. Let's hope with the new staff in office that there might be some changes in the near future.

There will be changes. Not sure if it will be good for the environment. I also agree that there is an insane amount of wasted government spending on studies and other useless projects. I have been in government work for almost 20 years now and it still amazes me. Like most of you on here, I love having clean water to go play in. The local rivers here in Pittsburgh have cleaned up a huge amount compared to when I was a child. I don't think that you could ever spend enough money to protect the environment as long as it is spent efficiently. Wasting it on studies for problems you never plan to solve or do not need to solve is not the solution.

Huh?

I'd ask you the same thing about the 600 billion on military spending. Or I could pick any other sector too. Again, why target our playgrounds?

And no to your questions, not enough hard line action...too much lobbying and politics, talk about waste.

History lesson. The company, Enbridge, that owns Line 5 which runs under Lake Michigan at the Straits also owns the line that ruptured in the Kalamazoo River five years ago. Over 850,000 gallons of raw crude into the river. Multi billion dollar cleanup and fines.

Just curious, what's wrong with developing other sources of energy also? Are you beholden to the oil industry in some aspect?

Personally, I think the more we can get away from fossil fuels to power cars, homes and industry, the more is freed up for our boats... Hows that for thinking outside the box?? Unfortunately we have too many politicians paid off by fossil fuels for anything to really change. I would love to see us join other countries and rely more on wind and solar for energy sources to power the grid.

It ill be very hard for the grid to go completely away from fossil fuel sources. Wind and solar, while they do help, are also sometimes a burden. Wind and solar will never be able to carry the base electric load of the US unless more research is put into them. Two major problems with them is that they are not reliable (the wind stops blowing and the solar relies on clear skies) and that the vast majority of wind farms and solar farms are built in remote areas because no one wants to see them from their backyard. With them being built in remote locations, there is very little load to serve there so the power needs transported to major load centers. In doing this it causes overloads, voltages issues, etc mainly because the infrastructure is not built up in these areas because again, lack of a load center and its remote location. Hydro is also the same way.....while it works and works well, there are dry spells in which dams cannot operate. There are more issues but these remain the most important in my mind.

With the way things are and the technology we have today, we will always need fossil fuel and nuclear plants (big nuclear fan by the way) to serve the base load electrical demand in the US. Maybe in the coming years, great new technology will arise that will change that but I haven't seen anything yet. Just my .02 for what its worth since I have a little knowledge in the area

The new staff in office are the ones cutting the funding Ron.