Why Are Inadequate Drives Acceptable On Boats?
 

In particular, Bravos. They constantly break and need new gear sets as maintenance. In the car world a rear axle that breaks every few years would be completely unacceptable. This should be unacceptable on boats too.

$$$$$

Because Mercury sells replacement parts.

Because you can get a pretty nice rear axle for a car for a couple grand compared to $20,000+ for ONE M6 drive

because just like boat engines, the drives/gears are under constant load = faster wear/tear. Both boat engines and drive-trains have shorter lifespans than their automotive counterparts.

In both auto and marine, the higher performance machines have more rigorous maintenance schedules - make sure you are comparing apples to apples.

Because money


no further reason is needed

Still wish you could get a TRS upper and bravo lower together. Nothing like the feel of transmissions when shifting.

How many rear axles are repeatedly bounced off the ground under acceleration AND overpowered for their rated use? Add a blower to a stock engine and run the car down a drag strip regularly.......then see if the manufacturer warranties the thing. Remember, Mercury DOES make drives that last, they just cost ALOT more up front.

I blew several XR's in my time. But each one was at 600+ hp and had an occasional launch off a set of tug boat wakes. Not Mercury's fault IMO.

Well some of us Donzi 22 owners are eagerly watching this Arneson project. Not cheap but neither is replacing drives routinely: http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthre...2-with-Arneson

I agree 100%....there are lots of reasons, but none are good ones.......darn near a conspiracy!:lolhit:

Its not just bravos though, EVERY drive seems to wear out or break sooner then they should when used close to, at, or above their rating.

Plus there's no reason for drives to cost so much

What ?

I thought there was some special mix of gear lubes that kept the Bravo's together ? :)

Because everyone rums Mercruisers instead of Volvos...

These nasty old Volvos still shifted like butter and made no noises. The oil was still clean and clear inside with over 1000 Hours on them and what looks like zero maintenance.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps16067794.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps65a26c8a.jpg

Its not that they break that bothers me its the insane cost of the parts. I admit I punish my drive and don't expect it to last forever But come on be real about gear sets that should be $300 not $1500. What do you all think it cost Merc to make a XR drive complete ??????? I will say $2000 tops.

Probably wasn't using the HP gear lube.....

I"m so glad I don't have the bug for more hp.

This is a big reason I sold my previous boat. A regular bravo lasted almost 750 hrs. on my 24 Superboat behind a 454 Mag, then a 496HO. I drove that thing like I stole it, LOTS of air-time. My 30 Superboat was a different story. The original XR lasted around 175 hrs. behind a 525efi. I replaced the drive, and that lasted less than 100 hrs. I should of bit the bullet and bought an IMCO after the first failure. I repaired the second drive and sold the boat.

From what I've read, the most common failure point in a Bravo XR drive is the upper gearset. I'd like to investigate developing a billet gearset with some advanced materials and processes.

If anyone has some worn gearsets they've replaced and would be willing to send them to me, please PM. I'd like to perform some failure analysis. I'll pay shipping.

Craziest part of these pictures is that this was the only time the boat had been in salt water and it was only for about 3hrs.


#boatsbelonginlakesonly

I mean, if you run any equipment at or past its maximum rating, you're going to have reduced life at best. Most of the world's Bravo drives are putting around behind stock power and doing their jobs perfectly fine.

And staying in the water. Start flying the boat and issues happen. Not saying it's good but that is the reality.

Comparing to cars isn't fair, they have a LOT more money for R&D and because of volume can drive the price down.

I would like to see how many failures there are on some of the performance cars out there if they install slicks and start running at the drags a LOT. Think about it, one good long day at the drag strip isn't even a hour run in good choppy water when you think how many times the boat drives can be loaded and unloaded when flying.

1. Market to small to develop a new better Bravo drive.

I don't know if its inadequate but more overpowered. Many of us are guilty, including me. Merc supplied XRs behind factory 600SCIs on our boat, boat came that way because they sell the package that way. Should have NXT or IMCO but original owner checked the cheaper box on the order. When drives fail it's my problem. Same thing with 496 Mag boats, they should have XRs , not X or Bravo. XRs on a 38 Top Gun with 525s is a perfect example, a lot of boat on drives that just can't handle the power to begin with. Running in the middle of a products service range will yield much better results than on the far reaches of it's capabilities. How many people on here build engines and just run the stock drive, then bash Bravos because they don't hold up. I will agree drive parts are very over priced, but when your the Goliath of your industry .....

There is a badass small drive company out there,adapted INDY car technology to drives, can't remember the name someone posted on OSO about them a few weeks ago. Very expensive but handle big HP and no failures. Maybe someone will chime in.


P.S. Here it is X Power http://www.xpowerdrive.com/site56/home.html

I've been running SCX's with blueprinted 1400 lowers swinging #6 wheels. It is a great setup. Just call up IMCO and order one or two.

If you were building a new boat what would get? SCX seems like the best deal. Asd 7s the next best deal. Then 6s which is what the fastest Vs still run.

I re-did my boat when I bought it so the SCX made a lot of sense. Sold my XR/imco setup for the cost of one SCX and then bought the other. Props are $9500 but the slip numbers and performance is not even close to the bravo setup. You can also run a #6 tiebar.

When I buy again if new its 400R OB's but if used I'd go #6 or #8.

Saw that don't want to run a reverse rotation motor

This is interesting anyone have an idea on the Pricing?

Padraig

Outboards ....All Day Long, then if I had to build a stern drive boat IMCO, if budget allowed X Power.

The Xpower is expensive. I called over and over and no one would answer.

I bought the SCX's. IMCO is on top of the customer service.

I asked about the X Powers a few weeks ago, because never heard of them. I was eyeing a Top Gun that has a pair. There is an older thread on here that goes into more depth that is informative. On the more recent thread people provided phone numbers to contact X Power. Anyway, I was impressed with what I read, but got limited feedback on real world use. In the end those bad boys will be $30-$35,000 a drive.
Michael

Imco lowers use XR gear sets. I had to replace a set that was starting to pit. I also blew up two uppers beyond repair. All well within specified hp range with a stock 525 in a 22' boat. It does go off-shore and gets air.

Right. So sell that stuff and buy a SCX UPPER and SCX 1400 lower. You can run an XR prop shaft or #6. You won't break it. I'm running hard in a lot of poker runs. Cruise speed around 90 mph most of the time.

Fyi, you will loose some speed. BUT it will last.

Don't fool yourselves. Those 350/400R OB lowers fail too. Just a quicker switch.

The problem isn't the Bravo, nor is it Mercury.

The problem is with the boaters. They want and believe that if it's not a Bravo then it's not right. They want their outdrives cheap, and they want them to only look like a Bravo. Look at everytime someone wants something different than a Bravo or non Mercury product and all the haters come out to tell how wonderful the sufferage club is and that you shouldn't leave it.

They will PM the person posting looking for an alternative and tell them they have a good drive to sell them. It's almost like a "Bravo cult" whereby once your in they won't let you out. They will brain wash you to believe that Mercury is the savior. Yet every once and a while some naive sole will make a post on here asking why me? Then someone will start to say " do this, buy that and it will live longer", but we all know the pain they are feeling isn't going away as long as they stay with a Bravo.

So start the look from within. That person staring back at you in the mirror is fighting your boating fun and is addicted to the Bravo blues. Don't feel bad, as your friends are are all codependent to your situation. Your wife and family not so much. :)

I wonder y Mercury stopped making T.R.S. drives?

A bravo isn't a bad drive in the right application. Unfortunately that's a sub 5000 lb boat with under 450hp

good question,

heres another, if mercury copied the volvo after the patent went out why didn't they include the gear oil pump (page 22, part # 17)

http://www.marinesurveyorontario.com...p%20manual.pdf