28' AT, 28' Pantera, 28' Apache, 30' Superboat, 27' Kryptonite, 30' Cig, 27' Activato
 

This thread is intended to point out the strengths of each of these boats:

28' AT I hear good things
28' Pantera quality, affordability, lifetime warranty
28' Apache quality
30' Superboat speed, affordability
27' Kryptonite speed, affordability
30' Cigarette quality
27' Activator speed, affordability
30' Phantom speed, affordability

If we created a perceptual map of the above boats, or any others that you think fit in the same size category, the horixontal axis might be speed and the vertical axis might be quality. What do you think?


quality
| Apache Pantera
| Cigarette
|
| AT
| (Kryptonite, Phantom)
| Superboat
| Activator
-----------------------------|-------------------------------------speed
|
|
|
|
|
|
|

Disregard that perceptual map. It didn't post the way I plotted it. Sorry.

Stand back this should be good"

Come on now mr taylor , dont you think you left one out ?

Wayne, you wouldn't be refering to the Progression, would you?
I say put them in alphabetical order and that would be close as to the performance ratings with the first being the best.:eek:

Oops,

That wasn't intentional. Progression 29': Speed, Quality

What, no stinkin' Fountains and Formulas?:rolleyes:

OK, don't complain about no Formulas or Fountains, let's add 'em.

Formula: quality
Fountain: quality, speed

Pass the popcorn! :D

HAHAHA , jealious with envy, huh guys !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like my boat and all that are listed BUT, if I had to choose, it would be a .........................41' Apache!

Cool, RLW, but can you rate each of the boats mentioned according to what you think their strengths are? You too, Wayne.

what is a 28 AT ?

Taylor, I think you've got to drop the Apache and the Cig for the pure reason that they are twin engine boats.
Sunsation must be mentioned or someone's going to get their panties in a knot over it.
I like my Activator due to the performance and curb appeal. As for amenities, it is a boat with few.
The first thing my girl friend said to me when I brought it home was "I don't see any cup holders". Believe me, I roared at that remark. I explained to her that cup holders weren't needed at 75mph and that her observation was noted.
Since then, I have had her driving the boat in a 2' chop at an easy 60 mph. The boat slices through the crap because of the 6'5" beam. With that kind of width, there isn't any room for amenities.
As far as the other boats are concerned, I would take any of them at the right price. The Activator came my way first and at the right price.

What ..no Warlocks.??...27 or 29.??..they can go thru anything..:confused:

Yeah, what about the Warlocks?
Don't forget about the other California boats.
This is going to be big!

OK, Warlock 29. I have only sat in one at a boatshow and don't know much besides hearing how many races they have won. Any opionions?

A 28' AT is an Active Thunder, unless whoever asked was joking. Then, it is still an Active Thunder.

Cigarette & pantera all the way, currently own a 24' pantera but my next will be something in the 35' range probably the cig playboy or maybe the 35' survivor pantera... unmatched quality.

If anyone wants to see a beautiful 28 Cigarette I have one for sale. Craig barrie e-mail me [email protected]

My pick

Mike,

Good pick. Can you elaborate as to the strengths of the Kryptonite? I had a chance to ride with Kirk Rogers and the owners of Xcelerator once and I loved it. What are your reasons?

Quality
|-------Apache
|---------Pantera
|--------------------Cigarette
|
|------------------------------------------Progression
|------------------------Active Thunder-Phantom
|------------------------------------------Kryptonite
|----------------------------------------Superboat
|-----------------------------------------------Activator
------------------------------------------------------------------------Speed
|
|
|
|

The above insertion is my perceptual map of these boats. Maybe it isn't what you think, but it's a start. Perhaps a third value besides quality and speed (given the same power) would have been weight. ANyway, what do you think? Again, this is not a bashing intention. I believe that each boat is built with a purpose or particular use/strength. I just want to stimulate discussion, not harsh criticism. I am looking for strenghts of the above boats.

What about 26 Sonic Prowler and 25 Baja Outlaw?

Quality
|-------Apache
|---------Pantera
|--------------------Cigarette
|
|------------------------------------------Progression
|-------------Sonic-----Active Thunder-Phantom
|-------------Baja------------------------Kryptonite
|----------------------------------------Superboat
|-----------------------------------------------Activator
------------------------------------------------------------------------Speed
|
|
|
|

i think you have to separate the objective from the subjective:

Objective:
Quality - there is only one bagged boat in the group that is fully composite construction. Do you know what it's made of? If they can not show you chances are they do not know either.
Speed - now this border's on subjective; how fast is the boat and in what conditions, will the mfr. demonstrate the speeds to you?
Cost - yes we know a Progression takes 6 months to build and is at the top of the price scale and a Baja can be fab'd in 6 weeks with 0% factory financing. You pick, Porsche GT2 or Mustang GT
Warranty - life, 10 yrs, or 10 months?
History- look at a 10 year boat from same mfr.
Service - will the mfr. hold your hand after the sale? will they be in business to hold your hand after the sale?
Rigging- is the package "race-ready"? What is the mfr's attitude about the rigging equipment?
Design: pad bottom, deep-v,modified-v, step bottom ...22,23,24,25-degree bottom. Know the general characteristics of each, and where you want to be based on that.
Configuration- Does the mfr have performance data on your configuration? or are you the guinea pig? Can they show it to you? This also relates to experience
Blueprinting (this relates to quality) - does the mfr. b-p the bottom? probably means they NEED to.
Seating/ergonomics- stand up or sit down? can you run through the snot and be in a position of control at all times?

Subjective
Image- what does the boat say about YOU? Porsche GT2 or Mustang GT?
Amenities - cupholders, etc. nice to have this stuff; what is stock & what can the builder provide?
Aesthetics- do I have to explain?
Graphics- anything can be painted on a boat


It's called diligent research

good luck

Fastone27,

Thanks for the analysis. Very true, it's difficult to compare speed without first mentioning conditions, driver, etc. ALso, quality in terms of what? Thanks for the thorough run-through.

Is the rest of this board bored or just stupid?

I'm just stupid :D

:p

:) Superboat ... mine 91 model tempest light strong fast and very durable.....twin OB could be set up with twin small blocks hull is kevlar balsa core bottom and top deck glued and screwed and glassed.... no stress cracks would buy again!

Also you forgot to mention Phantom 30 ....small very fast very well built single hp500 low 80's

Quality
|-------Apache
|---------Pantera
|--------------------Cigarette
|
|------------------------------------------Progression
|------------------------Active Thunder-Phantom
|------------------------------------------Kryptonite
|----------------------------------------Superboat
|-----------------------------------------------Activator
------------------------------------------------------------------------Speed
|
|
|
|

Rtaylor , once again im not trying to start anything buy how can you have a superboat so close in quality to a progression when they arent even close . Just the materials alone puts them on totally different ends of the scale. Progression does NOT use any plywood ,superboat uses all plywood . I must say im at a loss for words !!! HAHAHA

Am I missing something but I dont get the chart?
Randy

Wayne,

If you look at the chart a few insertions above you will see that Progression is about half way on the quality scale between Activator and Apache. Superboat is closer to Activator.

Typhoon,

The scale has a vertical plane (quality) and a horizontal plane (speed). The boats' position are a function of both. For instance, Apache is high on the quality scale, but slower on the speed scale. On the other hand, Superboat is high on the speed scale, but lower on overall quality. Progression is somewhere between.

typhoon,

you out there?

I dont understand how the chart works.

Wayne,

Imagine a graph like we all used in high school with an x-axis and a y-axis. The x-axis (horizontal) is speed. The y-axis (vertical) is quality. The faster the boat is, the farther to the right you go, and the higher the quality of the boat, the farther up you go. This way, a boat that has a little of both would be a Progression, for instance. The Apache would be big on quality but a little low on speed (it's a heavy boat). Wheras, the Activator is a fast boat, with a very bare bones product (it's light).

Quality
|-------Apache
|---------Pantera
|--------------------Cigarette
|
|------------------------------------------Progression
|-------------Sonic-----Active Thunder-Phantom
|-------------Baja------------------------Kryptonite
|----------------------------------------Superboat
|-----------------------------------------------Activator
------------------------------------------------------------------------Speed
|