Don't Come Back!
 

This past summer I had a couple friends that were told to get off the lake and do not come back. When the Sheriff tells you that, what do you do in that situation? One was on Torch Lake and another incident was on Higgins Lake, both in MI for those that don't know. The incident on Higgins was with a 36 cig with Zul 700/565s that had some raspy exhaust. The deputy that checked his db level the first time must not have been too bright as my bud only ran one motor...thats funny chit! The next time he launched it they told him to get it off the lake, come to find out the db meter wasnt even on the lake.

On to incident #2, Nortech 36 with 5" exhaust and 850s, Sheriff at Torch told him to not come back and didnt even test his db.

What is the legality of this? And what happens when you say "write me the ticket, I am staying"?

Go piss up a rope. He can't "ban" you from the lake, he has zero authority to do that. He can right you a slew of tickets, all of which get to be handled in our justice system. Sounds like you have a dick water patrol officer who doesn't like the old scary go fast boats.

I had one at Hardy Dam hot boat weekend tell me he could impound my boat and give me a misdemeanor ticket for violating a no wake zone which I didn't understand...I laughed in his face and told him good luck...my buddy that was with me showed him his sheriff badge and told him to go do something productive....he let us go no ticket...a lot of these cops don't understand the difference between road laws and water laws...I would have to guess they cant ban you from a lake unless it has a posted speed limit that you're clearly violating and it is preceded by a slew of tickets

Stewart

Maybe the better question is how should this be handled? Not so much the legality

if it were me I would politely ask for a printed copy of the law which they have to provide from my understanding and without a bunch of tickets or warnings ahead of time I don't think they have a basis to ban you in my opinion

stewart

Been there done that - you cant win.

"Go West, young man, go West". A mile offshore in Lake Michigan, and nobody cares about speed limits or dB. Poking the bears gets costly, road bond sux, and court dates eat up vacation time.

Out of all my law enforcement issues with motorized vehicles (boats, cars, etc) that had to be handled in court, I only really 'won one' - the cop was drunk. Okay...he was wasted.

Sounds bad...and some where...ever been thrown across your car by a cop ? :) but I have actually ran into some really cool cops that otherwise could have made life difficult. One set of troopers (out of state) actually showed us where the local street racing scene was and when. :) Another set up a race. and another set up an exhibition run. :) All 3, different states. :)

Boat police here...well...never brought anything to court because they can and will find you...most lakes are only so big.

Actually the owner of the Gladiator w/Zuls did win.......he sold the boat and has a pile of cash to keep him warm all winter! :D

Fun fact- just about every offense on the water in Michigan is a misdemeanor, not a civil infraction. It's all fun and games until you rack up a few or pizz off a judge and end up eating green bologna sandwiches and orange flavored drink for 93 days....

The water patrol where I boat are highway patrol officers that rotate shifts on and off the water, you get bowed up on one of them you go to jail,

JRider - Interesting thread. I have always wondered how to deal with this as well. The cops on Torch have been terrible over the past few years.

Where I live, we just give the cop 200 baht (about $6) and move on. It's called 'tea money' and common practice for any offense when nobody is seriously injured. Great country here!

RR

P.S. Sorry for the slight derail. :)

I would push the issue, I mean what does don`t come back mean? This isn`t the USSR. Does a cop have authority to tell you where you can and can`t boat (if the noise issue get resolved) They can ask and maybe you listen but lets see what happens when push comes to shove.


In Chicago you can`t pull up to a beach from water but legally no one owns the lake front up to the highest tide. I got kicked off 3 beaches in one day. The last one I said you know what I`m not moving. It was a large church that backed up to the lake with security. Two rent a cops asked me to get off the beach. I pulled up my chair in the water as close to shore as I could and told em to go pound sand. They called the cops. The police told me it was a gray area on where in the water I can pull up to. I said no it isn`t they don`t own the lake and I`m not moving. They left

We use to have that problem around here back in the day. Anything over a v6 and you were getting pulled over for a sound check. If you failed the test you were instructed to get off the water immediately. If you came by water you had to leave and head back to wherever you came from. It was basically a fix it ticket, you had 2 weeks to prove you can get your exhaust under 90db. If you did the ticket was ripped up, if not you had to pay the fine. I actually asked one officer what would happen if I didn't leave when they told me to, his response was they would eventually impound my boat. The bottom line is your not going to win unless you do what they say

Being in Law Enforcement, on our local water unit here and a long time boater I can attempt to clear some issues up. My personal approach is to always use a little common sense. There are ways to balance the boating laws and boaters enjoyment so that everybody has a good time on the water, while being safe. Unfortunately, there are many who do water patrols that do not know the differences between vehicle laws and waterway laws. Or they are trying to prove something. Like playing the lottery, you might win or not when it comes to which one you get stopped by.

In regards to some of the legal questions here; most states have similar processes and laws however they can vary. So I might not be spot on with where you live. As a general rule, no we do not have to provide a copy of the law to enforce it. That is your responsibility to know the local laws for where you are boating. Can they throw you off a lake? Quite possibly. It depends on who owns the lake and who is throwing you off, who has jurisdiction. We have many state parks here with lakes. If a park ranger throws you off, you can be arrested for Defiant Trespassing if you refuse to leave or come back. So if that officer works for the agency whom has jurisdiction over that lake, they can legally throw you off.

My best advice, always talk to any law enforcement people with a humble attitude. Be courteous and respectful. This goes a long way in setting the tone for the entire interaction. No guarantee cause you might have lost the lottery and got somebody who is stroking their ego. But, it generally works best. If you have that negative interaction, then you can always follow up with a supervisor on their department. Worst case, you can always talk your way back onto a lake if approached properly.

Remember, when people have these interactions, they are not the first to do so. There is usually some sort of law or legal court precedence that backs up the authority in these matters. Basically, when push comes to shove, we typically will win. It is not worth it over minor stuff.

I've never been pulled over on Cumberland. They actually have laws now where the WP has to see you doing something wrong before they can even stop you. I don't know if I would boat if I had to deal with some of the AH's that you guys deal with up north. We have it lucky.

Hmmmm. Really? YOU? Pushing the issue?....Hmmmm...that surprises me.

PS...check your mail today. Package arriving.

Maybe Im getting old, but who really has the time or energy to mess with water police? If theres an AHOLE cop on the water, I boat somewhere else...down or up river. I dont want to be bothered with getting boarded, checking for safety equipment, possibly DWI.....Just cooperate and be nice. Let the thugs push buttons....not me. Ive learned being nice goes a LOOOOng way.

If the cops don't want you there, there are probably others. It's not likely you are getting in trouble in a 525EFI sport boat. You have a couple of the loudest possible boats you are describing. This is coming from a guy with dry above transom pipes. I use common sense. When the lake/marina is quiet it do my best not to be the one a$$hole. I try to quickly get away from shore and I don't buzz the houses and shoreline. I am not saying you don't.

As far as what can you do to beat the cop? Why? He'll find something else. Better hope your trailer has inspections, lights working, etc. If not him, his buddy will bother you on the way home.

Best case is you do beat them and they change the law...

To make things more interesting in both cases the lake associations press the Sheriff departments, and in the case of Torch lake they actually purchased the db meter and donated it to them. The problem is the officers have not been trained on how to operate it, my boat tested at 96 db one year, I added clamp on mufflers the next year and it tested at 108. The 96 was believable with a single, the 108 with mufflers is a joke. I actually asked for the test after I had the mufflers installed so I would not be hassled, cop was a total prick. After showing him my paperwork from the year before and showing him the mufflers I added, he said I changed something...basically calling me a liar. Have not seen that fat ass back on the water this year.

I was not familiar with the size or location of either of these lakes. After looking them up on the map, what is the attraction when you have Lake Michigan? Looking at the map, this sounds like teenagers rough housing in the kiddie pool.

I am not arguing the dB issue, but acknowledge the situation.

Click the link

https://www.google.com/search?q=torc...w=1093&bih=546

We had similar issue with a local water patrol, a few phone calls where made to state representative for that area. Mysteriously she is no longer there after 1 season.

Well.. A part. Of it is perspective. Northern Michigan. A lot of lake front property owns spent a bunch of money for what they thought is quiet tranquil serene shoreline. The drone of a couple big blocks is not relaxing to them. And given our big fast loud boats it's like jetskiing in a bathtub. I like fast loud boats as much as anyone but when your dealing with local property owners with a hotline to the local law enforcement vs transient non local power boaters the locals are going to win, right wrong or indifferent. Trying to fight the local law enforcement is like trying to fight the cook before dinner is served, it's just not going to taste good in the end.
ho

Chesapeake bay...no issues with this crap...:bong:

Add "sandbar" to that search and you'll see what law enforcement is dealing with on that lake, which is gorgeous by the way. If it were me wanting to be on that lake in a loud boat, I'd either 1.) Go see the cops first during the week and express my desire to be a law abiding boater and offer to let them test your exhaust with their dB meter (and maybe take 'em some donuts or BBQ) or 2.) Get a ticket without them testing your dB level and go let the judge decide who is right or wrong based on state statute, which is pretty clear.

Edit:

Check this out, Torch Lake chock full of go-fast boats. Maybe your friend was doing something these folks aren't doing that resulted in being asked to leave:

Great idea.......but how does that work on a 20-30 mile long lake?

You tow an hour, launch the boat at one of 3-4 ramps on the entire lake and then are told to get the boat off the lake? At minimum your day is ruined by hauling the boat to another lake....if one is even nearby.

http://torch-lake-mi.weebly.com/uplo...39843_orig.jpg

http://www.visitalden.com/images/698...h_End_Fall.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6c/d6/73/6...t-michigan.jpg

After looking up the pics...yup, seems an awful small lake for such activities. The beauty of the water is definitely the draw to all, so I can see the clashes.

If you've never been to Torch its easy to draw an opinion of it by doing a google search, especially if you add "sandbar" to your inquiry. Past years have been a little while but it has been very mild for the last couple years as far as the parties go. It is really only like that on the 4th of July anyway and maybe a day before/after.

The lake is 19 miles long and about 2 across, plenty of room IMO to run pretty hard.

However, the police presence has been brutal this year as of late. The sheer number of police out on the water is way more than it needs to be. The circle that sandbar like sharks, when 95% of the people on that sandbar on normal weekends are families in their pontoon or small runabout. I know a few people (families) who used to slip their boats on Torch and no longer do so due to the feeling of being a criminal by just going out on their boat. The only thing I can really compare the police presence to would be Jobbie Nooner on Lake St. Clair.

Yeah, Torch is by no means a pond, plenty of room to run, and Elk Lake (which it connects to) is not small either. I usually make one rip across the lake in the mid day and park it at sand bar, a few beers and idle it back in.

Same thing I do. Usually not hard to find someone to make a blast up the Lake. Its a good all-around lake IMO. Big enough to have fun and run hard yet small enough to not have the worries of a big lake like Lake Michigan (wind, waves, weather, distance, etc.)

Plus the sandbar is a very convenient place to go to to hang out, very clean and knee/ankle deep water.

That bleeding heart biatch can stop at any time, I had never seen this video until tonight, it is laughable. There was a study done on the impact of the people and boats on the sandbar and it did not show any discernible impact. What a crock of shiitt, wonder who she voted for?

BTW the lake association paid for the study.

I've been to Torch twice. Got pulled over the second time for loud exhaust and got away with a warning. Won't ever go back. Who needs that harassment? Too many other great lakes in Michigan to boat on that enjoy me spending my money there.

That is beautiful water ...

Her family came to the lake "In 1987" ? Where I come from she'd be considered a newbie and I'd be telling her to leave.

Michael Moore and Eminem used to have homes there....she probably got it from one of them, which means liberalism is contagious, and possibly waterborne. Stay away from there!

Still be careful... that something wrong could be possiblly be, "There is a lot of people on that boat, they don't have enough life jackets."
I boat there for poker run and raft up with no problems. I live in east KY and boat mostly at local lakes. My main lake no problems at all. The other lake, I hear they check like crazy. Now if someone was to fight it (I've heard of the law you speak of), I don't know how well it would go after finding something negative on a random check.

Back to the op... I'm a law enforcer. Educate yourself on the situation and be civil/polite when approached with the situation. Question exactly what you are in violation of. Ask if the calibration is up to date on the instrument used to check you db level. I'd need something in writing for me to leave a lake. Have your buddy record the situation and again, be civil no matter how the water patrol acts.