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Twin,
the side by side twin step Fountains came with them spinning out. On my 32 I tried them out. In the mid range it wanted to make the boat hop more, even the wife noticed. No real top end difference, maybe 1.5 slower. Put them back to spinning in and just trim out when docking, no problems. Brad, if you rode in my boat and see how hard it can turn you will see spinning in doesn’t bother it, in fact you may also wonder about all the stories of how steps make the boats spin out. I have suprised more then a few people. Just got to know what not to do. |
Originally Posted by Wildman_grafix
(Post 4862791)
Twin,
the side by side twin step Fountains came with them spinning out. On my 32 I tried them out. In the mid range it wanted to make the boat hop more, even the wife noticed. No real top end difference, maybe 1.5 slower. Put them back to spinning in and just trim out when docking, no problems. Brad, if you rode in my boat and see how hard it can turn you will see spinning in doesn’t bother it, in fact you may also wonder about all the stories of how steps make the boats spin out. I have suprised more then a few people. Just got to know what not to do. That's why my post was speculative. I have zero experience with twins at all. I'm just looking at the physics of it. I might also wonder if the length of your boat contributes to its stability, in spite of the props spinning the way you have them set up, where the OP doesn't enjoy that luxury. I am genuinely curious as to the findings. Thanks. Brad. (937)545-8991 |
Did some testing yesterday.
And it is/was, proof of why we test. Read everything but, test! Boat still rolls to starboard coming on plane, maybe less aggressively, then the starboard wheel breaks loose and spins! I also added a 1/2” of positive toe to the motors. Had a fuel supply issue and was only able to do very short runs. Have material to extend my tabs and will try again. |
Gary are you spinning out now?
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In
Was out. Didnt get over 20 mph due to fuel supply issues but was better to that point.
Originally Posted by Cary 29
(Post 4864631)
Gary are you spinning out now?
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I see. Thought you were in and going out. I would have thought out would be better with your setup...but like you said test...,,
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I’m wondering now……
I was quite restricted w/tab mounting locations due to the bracket design so I’m wondering if the exaggerated down angles are deflecting water flow to the props?? If so, this would change w/speed and explain the issues I’m seeing. Theory is that extending their length will reduce that effect. Tempted to try the previously suggested go pro mounted to watch this but as I’m testing solo, I end up trying 2 or 3 things at once to reduce my trips. We shall see……
Originally Posted by Cary 29
(Post 4864667)
I see. Thought you were in and going out. I would have thought out would be better with your setup...but like you said test...,,
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Originally Posted by Twin O/B Sonic
(Post 4864683)
I’m wondering now……
I was quite restricted w/tab mounting locations due to the bracket design so I’m wondering if the exaggerated down angles are deflecting water flow to the props?? If so, this would change w/speed and explain the issues I’m seeing. Theory is that extending their length will reduce that effect. Tempted to try the previously suggested go pro mounted to watch this but as I’m testing solo, I end up trying 2 or 3 things at once to reduce my trips. We shall see…… I Have always found it more productive to test one thing at a time, to avoid any intersectional effects. Don't, say, swap props AND rotation direction for the same test session. If you want to test an electrical fix or improvement on the same test session as a prop swap, that would probably not cross contaminate, but a rotation direction swap and longer tabs very likely would. Just my two cents. Thanks. Brad. (937)545-8991 |
Decided to get after the cosmetics.
Thought the gel on the deck was beyond saving and had planned to paint it. At this point, not willing to dedicate myself to that level though. W/everything else on my plate for this project… Started w/a buffer and rubbing compound and although it was helping, the gel was so porous it was absorbing the compound before I could hit it w/the buffer. The bow railings were loose and water was leaking into the cabin and getting to the balsa so I removed them to repair that and thought….., it’s now or never for the deck! Pulled the rest of the deck hardware. Used a (2nd) pc of crap, Harbor Freight pneumatic orbital sander and experimented w/1500 wet/dry, then to rubbing compound, polishing compound etc, etc. Was amazed at how well it was coming out so said fk it and dove in head first! This is after 10 hrs of work. 2nd pc of crap sander lasted 3 hrs! Very happy w/results! Not bad for a 37 yr old boat, built in Ohio! https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...fd29ee59b.jpeg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...2dc8bf3f4.jpeg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...7a5f6b556.jpeg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...fa5b9aa27.jpeg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...f438a0864.jpeg |
Looks Awesome Gary nice job...
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I'd give this 10 likes if I could. The effort was well worth the results!
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Finally getting my latest restomod in the water...just waiting on upolstery to finish..
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Very nice Cary!
What is it? 28’ Pantera? |
Oh, way to go, Ohio
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No it's a 69 Formula 233, Don's original design the one that was The Cigarette... Rides incredibly well. I bought it last June in Wisconsin in a barn from the Grandson of the original owner. Been looking for one for awhile. I wanted something old of course that would be easier than my 30ft offshore to use,cheaper,etc but still handle the rough water...
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Way cool!
Always liked the 233’s. Knew they were big but damnnnn, that thing is huge!
Originally Posted by Cary 29
(Post 4870346)
No it's a 69 Formula 233, Don's original design the one that was The Cigarette... Rides incredibly well. I bought it last June in Wisconsin in a barn from the Grandson of the original owner. Been looking for one for awhile. I wanted something old of course that would be easier than my 30ft offshore to use,cheaper,etc but still handle the rough water...
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Took a 1/2 day off today and finished w/the polisher.
Ugh! Am still stunned at how well this turd from Bucyrus Ohio turned out! I assumed the gray was toast and why I put the “Cocky” name over where the Convincor sticker was. Kind of a joke as I knew it would be painted. If a guy wanted to get serious, you could block/polish this entire, 37 yr old boat and end up w/a knew one! Well done Checkmate! https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...bfd6ef0be.jpeg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...e0bbb40ba.jpeg |
Nothing more rewarding than elbow grease
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Yeah the freeboard is up there but only 8ft beam. It's a little stubby compared to my Superboat, Excalibur,etc but more inline with my Carys
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You do good work 😀. The shine looks great from the photos, very nice job!
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That's why I paint all my boats with automotive products, not pourous enough to fade like gelcoat for long time...shines easier too..
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100% agreed.
Me too.
Originally Posted by Cary 29
(Post 4870488)
That's why I paint all my boats with automotive products, not pourous enough to fade like gelcoat for long time...shines easier too..
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But Gary you made that look like paint....now hurry up an try that ceramic coat crap to seal it in...lol
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https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...48e0bbd06.jpeg
Couldn’t be happier w/the end result! https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...dc4894e09.jpeg Cary, one thing I learned spinning the wheels in is, it sucks around dock! Made a fool of my self docking the damn thing! https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...b54164de3.jpeg Saturday we did the 25 ml trip to Middle Bass Island, another class A marina! First time I ran compass course on that trip to conserve gas. Out of site of land for 1/2 the trip! I live for that ****! https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...c3cf58fa9.jpeg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...39cfee10a.jpeg The adult wading pool behind our favorite bar on the planet! JF Walleyes! https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...9426d2c89.jpeg Home base for the weekend. Huron Ohio. Class A marina w/an amphitheater cut into a hill over looking it. Killer band Sat no get. And got a tour of the gorgeous 37’ sailboat beside us! Once again reminded how lucky I am to have the wife I have when I crawled out of the cuddy to make coffee Sat morning and the guy on the sail boat says, “didn’t know that thing was big enough to sleep aboard?” I said, yep, and got one more bellow. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...35d5a81ba.jpeg |
Beautiful...i wouldn't think with all that weight aft that you would have to spin in...i hated it, boat handled scary at times,wife noticed right away. Not to mention sucks at the dock. Out is correct, it wrights the boat as it counters the roll...in makes it want to roll over...
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I spin in on my boat (I know whole different thing) but they way to help around docks is to trim it out a little so the prop wash goes under the boat.
I don't even notice the difference. |
Exactly trimmed up with my Arneson surface drives...helps but the rotation still affects docking manners not just the wash..
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Originally Posted by Cary 29
(Post 4871125)
Beautiful...i wouldn't think with all that weight aft that you would have to spin in...i hated it, boat handled scary at times,wife noticed right away. Not to mention sucks at the dock. Out is correct, it wrights the boat as it counters the roll...in makes it want to roll over...
I have twin Arnesons that are setup turning in. havw not run it yet, but orig owner had handling issues at speed. Likely 26° Vee chine walking...where spinning in would make that worse...or even potentially causing it. Glad to see the Outboards got some time out on the water...despite the weather. |
No, spinning in, gives bow lift. Props dig in down but what I was talking about is the overall handling..not just docking but in big water the boat will roll to side easier. You have to picture what the rotation force does. In usually pulls hulls higher and faster a bit,however in my opinion at the expense of everything else,docking,etc.. Spinning out easier to plane also. I've tried and had every setup...
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Too much to explain on here but you really have to spin in with surface drives to work on a performance boat. High rake props help because they hold bow up like trim that isn't much there with a surface setup. Chine walking could yes be worse spinning in.
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I have Jack plates and w/them up, propshafts even w/bottom ahead of them, down, cavitation plates are even w/bottom.
W/zero wind/current I can dock the boat w/them up. W/any of above, the boat goes w/the wind. W/the motors down its way improved but still not as good as spinning out. Another aspect is how close together the motors are mounted, which of course reduces leverage of thrust from props. Motors are on 25” centers. I need one more drive shaft then will have everything I need to convert to 20” motors. I expect high speed handling to improve, cool factor will go way up but also expect to go from a pretty decent little cabin cruiser to a hot rod toy! BTW, I have new/replacement graphics on the way too.
Originally Posted by Wildman_grafix
(Post 4871142)
I spin in on my boat (I know whole different thing) but they way to help around docks is to trim it out a little so the prop wash goes under the boat.
I don't even notice the difference. |
Have collected all the pc’s/pt’s I needed and am In process of the 25” to 20” conversion and will also revert back to spinning props out.
Going to have to mod the water intakes on the gearcases too since now, my jack plates will be able raise them out of the water! Dying to go into the powerheads and build some power until it’s dialed, I’m wasting my time. Also painting the motors as the silver is too boring. Pending weather here in Ohio (sucks paining in the winter!) I’ll paint the motors next wk and start reassembly. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...6d8894c8a.jpeg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...c56882537.jpeg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...9c1b838d5.jpeg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...23152fb7f.jpeg |
Forgot I’ve got a decent video from the Suwanee from last yr.
Trying to remember how to load to YouTube. The first smooth water, more than 3 mls, since creation of this contraption! Was big fun! First time not getting punched in the shoulder by the Mrs after launching off a wave in Lake Erie! Was enough curve in the river though, that I still didn’t get through the low 70’s. |
Here’s the video from Suwanee River at 70 mph last year.
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/STZw2YQvTEo |
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Headway.
Should have the second motor hung today. Boat looks WAY better w/the 20” motors. W/Jack plates full up, my propshafts should be approx 2” up. Assuming my water intake mod’s work. Got lucky a few days ago and got a 60* day to be able to keep the shop hot enough to spray. My 3rd spray job using Summit Racing paint and love it! Think I had $140 in a gallon of paint, catalyst and reducer! https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...07d27cc49.jpeg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...34eb90d6e.jpeg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...cf4cea581.jpeg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...69db9f24f.jpeg |
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