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You two need to get a room |
Happy, Adam?? :D |
Hustler
Originally Posted by GRH
(Post 4618748)
Hustler
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...7dac853045.jpg |
Butthurt is strong in this thread...
power play electrical rigging always impressed me. dcb rigging, and fit/finish is top notch. laveycraft, and eliminator do amazing gelcoat work. apache/cig seem built for their hard use. the only weird part I see with these threads is : how many eliminators or dcbs do you see with 5 feet of air under the boat smashing through the rough? Id say few if any... because of that, my vote for overall goes to outerlimits, skater, and mti... Clean rigging, good fit and finish and alot of guys use em in a variety of conditions most wouldnt idle around in. |
Originally Posted by PigNaPoke
(Post 4618864)
how many eliminators or dcbs do you see with 5 feet of air under the boat smashing through the rough? Id say few if any...
I did own a Nordic 28 that I had built new...it was NOT an offshore boat by any means, I run Long Island Sound which isn't exactly a bath tub and I got rid of it after a few years. |
Originally Posted by PigNaPoke
(Post 4618864)
Butthurt is strong in this thread...
power play electrical rigging always impressed me. dcb rigging, and fit/finish is top notch. laveycraft, and eliminator do amazing gelcoat work. apache/cig seem built for their hard use. the only weird part I see with these threads is : how many eliminators or dcbs do you see with 5 feet of air under the boat smashing through the rough? Id say few if any... because of that, my vote for overall goes to outerlimits, skater, and mti... Clean rigging, good fit and finish and alot of guys use em in a variety of conditions most wouldnt idle around in. |
Originally Posted by thisistank
(Post 4618802)
Threads like these are destined to piss everyone off.
Everyone builds a nice new boat these days. And what do you mean "highest quality"? Can't really just say "build quality" Overall, structural, fit and finish, attention to detail, performance? And you can't really bring in stuff from the past because sh!t is getting unreal over the past few years. You see the over the top quality of the little westcoast companies lately? Stuff would blow your mind! If you haven't looked, do yourself a favor and peruse this thread Official 2018 Los Angeles Boat Show Report! River Daves Place. And these are not typical manufacturers that you'd associate immediately with the statement "highest quality boat". Cigarette, DCB, Skater, MTI, OL, Mystic, all at the top of their game and it definitely could be debated between these manufacturer's "who's the highest quality build". Threads like this are like going into a truck forum and asking, "which ones better, Ford, Chevy or Dodge?" They're all bad azz bro. No one here is going to be disappointed walking in and buying a new high end boat. arguing what's better is kinda silly. Just my .02 Tim P- take your 'fly off the handle' tantrum posts elsewhere. Tom quit antagonizing him, :lolhit: |
Originally Posted by thisistank
(Post 4618802)
Threads like this are like going into a truck forum and asking, "which ones better, Ford, Chevy or Dodge?"
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Absolutely the Bestest!
Originally Posted by Indy
(Post 4618903)
Ford obviously, people actually ask which one's better? :p
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Ford, Chevy, or Dodge? Come on get with the times Toyota and Nissan have strong heavy duty trucks that can do anything the big 3 trucks can do. Not to mention did you hear about the new Volkswagen( the peoples car) truck that is gonna steal the market?.....
Ah, yeah, oops, sorry I forgot other then pulling a small open bow and getting groceries those 3 all have nothing on the real work trucks. the 250/2500 and up |
Originally Posted by AJ POWERPLAY
(Post 4618898)
Tim P- take your 'fly off the handle' tantrum posts elsewhere. Tom quit antagonizing him, :lolhit:
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Thinking about this a little more and decided it very well could be the big Nortech that Bob the Builder owns. He's run that boat to the places most of us talk about and then find excuses.
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I'll say it,,APACHE.:D
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https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...58b54fff53.png
The wiring on my Donzi looks very nice too ... until I got a camera behind the gunwale where you aren't supposed to see it ... |
Originally Posted by AJ POWERPLAY
(Post 4618898)
tank- you're taking it too seriously. It's an opinion thread created during a bar conversation over too many beers. By the way, to answer your last question... Chevy, without a doubt.
Tim P- take your 'fly off the handle' tantrum posts elsewhere. Tom quit antagonizing him, :lolhit: |
Tim. Stop posting on this tread so we can enjoy it. Thanks and Happy Easter
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The obvious and only logical way to answer this question is for everyone to get up tomorrow and buy a 2" hole saw and start drilling and postin' pics. Please set your phones cameras to HD. We need shots of holes through the transoms, upper deck, sides, bottoms (2, 4, and 16' from the transom). A couple of holes from each side would be helpful too so we can judge the wrap/paint/gelcoat thickness. If you have time to get more shots of the wiring loom terminations that would be fabulous as well. Let's all meet back here Monday and settle this once and for all.....:ernaehrung004:
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Originally Posted by thirdchildhood
(Post 4618936)
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...58b54fff53.png
The wiring on my Donzi looks very nice too ... until I got a camera behind the gunwale where you aren't supposed to see it ... https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...39b4b10668.jpg this donzi 22 had all the breakers wired together with an uncoated hard wire exposed with 12 volts running through it before it started breaking from vibration ... from the factory |
I understand that it depends on the type of boat but... I have been on this boat and most other high end brands and nothing compares to this...
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Originally Posted by akaboatman
(Post 4618956)
Tim. Stop posting on this tread so we can enjoy it. Thanks and Happy Easter
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Best boats from companies that back them up
I would add that the best boats are built by the same companies that back them up when there is a problem. Have had a problem with a Hustler and Joe backed his product with no questions asked - and it was out of waranty. A total stand up guy. I now have a Nortech and it has issues - Sent text to Matt in customer support and he responded immediatly. Sent pictures of the issue asking for help and advice on repair of delamination of the core and he will not answer his phone or return a call. Am now having the boat repaired by a very qualified shop - who found a lack of proper bonding during layup. My vote is for Hustler and people like Joe who take care of there customers. |
Where's Jupiter Sunsation on this? He knows more about Nor-Tech bathrooms than Trond himself. |
Those 1st couple of pics with the clean wiring makes me wonder if boat builders know about ABYC ratings when so many wires are bundled together like that? For example, consider a 12ga wire can be rated for 45A when in a bundle of 2 wires, but when bundled with 7-24 wires, the allowable amperage for that same wire drops to 22A. Not that its an issue, just a curiosity thing. Thats why I like my Baja, they are aware of this ABCY wire derating and use it. Hence why the wiring is just hanging down everywhere and not nice and tiddy. LOL
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Safety First!
[QUOTE=US1 Fountain;4619096]Those 1st couple of pics with the clean wiring makes me wonder if boat builders know information and not shared it withabout ABYC ratings when so many wires are bundled together like that? For example, consider a 12ga wire can be rated for 45A when in a bundle of 2 wires, but when bundled with 7-24 wires, the allowable amperage for that same wire drops to 22A. Not that its an issue, just a curiosity thing. Thats why I like my Baja, they are aware of this ABCY wire derating and use it. Hence why the wiring is just hanging down everywhere and not nice and tiddy. LOL[/QUOTE Wow, who would have believed that Baja would have this information and not share it in the interest of Consumer safety. LOL! |
Baja set the bar. It’s up to the others to take notice. Also why they don’t seal any holes, makes for a lighter hull, until it gets saturated. It’s a boat, it’s made to get wet, right? 😀 |
Calendar says spring but looking outside my back slider yesterday combined with this thread show winter is still firmly in place! :stooges: https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...57e8bb5a1f.jpg
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can only speak to the two brands I have owned (formula and cigarette)...between the two it’s not even comparable. while the formula has lots of ammenities and is nice for the money, the build quality isn’t even close to the cig. Near the end of owning the formula it really started showing its deterioration. 1. Most rear windshield screws had sheared off, resulting in a lot of damage to surrounding fiberglass. Guessing the continued flexing of the windshield caused the screws to fail. 2. Drivers helm started pulling away from the gunnel, resulting in a 1.5” gap. We weren’t able to fix this..just added some extra caulk and boated. 3. Gel finish cracks and delam in the bilge area. Don’t think this was structural but it was unsightly and concerning given the boat wasn’t that old. 4. Cracks in fiberglass engine lid. Guessing someone put too much weight on one area...I.e. jumping on it. Nevertheless the fiberglass shouldn’t flex or crack 5. Cabin door would constantly flex and jump it’s track. More of a nuisance than a real issue. But it shouldn’t be doing that. As mentioned formula has its place in the boating world. It’s not a terrible boat. They are actually made well compared to some other brands. Cabins are really nice, fit finish is good, looks sleek, etc. But when comparing it to our TG it’s really no contest. Our TG cabin door closes like a vault, zero flex in any of the fiberglass, can have my 400lb buddy jump on the sunpad don’t think the thing will flex, wiring is superb, etc etc. In my experience I would pick Cig over formula. |
Originally Posted by omerta one
(Post 4619085)
Where's Jupiter Sunsation on this? He knows more about Nor-Tech bathrooms than Trond himself. I just pick on Cig for not being able to build a decent head in their performance V's......just that stupid porta potty in the center of the cabin! You had Phil "customize" yours by hiding it behind a curtain or something so obviously you thought about it also. My buddy had the black 38 Powerplay and after 4 yrs/10,000 nautical miles the worst part about it was the CMI headers killing motors. The enclosed head on that boat got used every weekend (he had small kids) and they would be showered up ready for bed when they got home after a long day at the sandbar. His cabin had AC so it really made for a nice spot to go when it got hot outside and the kids usually ended up napping in there for a few hours. I'd still say Bob's Nortech has been further "offshore" than every boat on OSO other than maybe that Skater V diesel. Guy has built over a dozen new boats so I think he knew who built the best 50 ft V bottom for a triple diesel application. I think he mentioned 1100 hours on it, I'd love to know how many miles are on the GPS! This boat was obviously built well and still going strong. All boats break and the followup customer service really matters to the buyer/boat owner. The problem with a thread like this is you have guys chiming in about 20-30-40 yr old boats and can you really brag about factory rigging when the boat has already been rerigged 4 times by 3 different people? Can you expect a builder to warranty a rotted stringer on a boat that is 20 years old? What if the interior falls apart but the interior company is out of business now? Go back to the builder on that 5 years later? |
All valid points Jupiter, Perhaps we should break this down further to original rig vs re-rig, diesel powered vs gas or outboards, and have several size classes like 20'-30', 30'-40', 40'-50', 50'-70', and OMG! LOL Spring please hurry!:)
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not sure on this. think all of them left in our type boats are building nice stuff now. they wouldn't still be around. now if its anything like construction you can have a very nice finish but very bad construction.
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Originally Posted by sprsptr
(Post 4619234)
All valid points Jupiter, Perhaps we should break this down further to original rig vs re-rig, diesel powered vs gas or outboards, and have several size classes like 20'-30', 30'-40', 40'-50', 50'-70', and OMG! LOL Spring please hurry!:)
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Bobby Moore rigged mine. What are all these companies you guys are mentioning? Do they do rigging?
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Originally Posted by Dean Ferry
(Post 4619289)
Spring is here! https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...8a96b731ec.jpg
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Originally Posted by sprsptr
(Post 4619485)
33 degrees as I type this here in NH, clearly you have a different definition of Spring!
Valiant Air Command Warbird Air Museum & Air Show - Titusville, Florida https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...98eddb4d72.png |
Lots of interesting replies to this thread. Let's see if I can add anything since I'm a retired Engineer and I tend to look at things like boat construction a bit differently than some other folks.
First of all, there are a number of companies who build boats (of all sizes) that could be legitimately considered "high quality boat builders." Many worthy names have already been mentioned here. And lots of folks have posted up pictures of various aspects of boat building that are indicators of high quality construction. (Well thought out and executed electrical wiring for instance.) But the way I look at "high quality" includes more than just wiring. A true high quality boat - in my estimation - starts with a sound design. (The original George Linder designed Challenger 21 for instance.) But a sound design executed with poor quality construction (as some of the copies were) does not make a true high quality boat. And even a sound design, built by the finest craftsmen, might not make my cut if it were finished with poor quality paint, graphics and hardware. Oh, and even the finest quality construction as practiced by the finest craftsmen - from 25 years ago - might not compare favorably with the latest construction. Does that make any sense? |
Originally Posted by Too Stroked
(Post 4619513)
Lots of interesting replies to this thread. Let's see if I can add anything since I'm a retired Engineer and I tend to look at things like boat construction a bit differently than some other folks.
First of all, there are a number of companies who build boats (of all sizes) that could be legitimately considered "high quality boat builders." Many worthy names have already been mentioned here. And lots of folks have posted up pictures of various aspects of boat building that are indicators of high quality construction. (Well thought out and executed electrical wiring for instance.) But the way I look at "high quality" includes more than just wiring. A true high quality boat - in my estimation - starts with a sound design. (The original George Linder designed Challenger 21 for instance.) But a sound design executed with poor quality construction (as some of the copies were) does not make a true high quality boat. And even a sound design, built by the finest craftsmen, might not make my cut if it were finished with poor quality paint, graphics and hardware. Oh, and even the finest quality construction as practiced by the finest craftsmen - from 25 years ago - might not compare favorably with the latest construction. Does that make any sense? TS, Well put, from another engineer.. Dean |
Originally Posted by Jupiter Sunsation
(Post 4619225)
haha......you can't win in a thread like this! :D
I just pick on Cig for not being able to build a decent head in their performance V's......just that stupid porta potty in the center of the cabin! You had Phil "customize" yours by hiding it behind a curtain or something so obviously you thought about it also. I really don't think a "decent head" is something Cig isn't "able to build", I believe they simply choose not to make it a priority. To each his own, if I had little kids or a wife with an overactive bladder and needed an performance bathroom, it would be a different story... The highest quality boat build is the one that stands the test of time. |
Airshow!
Originally Posted by Dean Ferry
(Post 4619505)
LOL, yep, left upstate NY in 1982, haven't been back to that crap hole, except to visit family since, (crap hole comment is more directed towards NYC)... Although my wife and 1 daughter are headed to NYC tomorrow for last 1/2 of Spring break.... My 1 daughter has been dying to go to NYC for a couple of years now, cant' understand it.....I have to stay, since my Mom is still in the hospital.... I will be boating again this weekend though, going to watch another Airshow from the ICW in the 388...
Valiant Air Command Warbird Air Museum & Air Show - Titusville, Florida https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...98eddb4d72.png |
Originally Posted by sprsptr
(Post 4619679)
Now you are just rubbing it in! My airshow is cold rain today, doesn't warrant a picture. Hope your Mom is OK.
Thanks for the kind thoughts about my mom, she is not doing very well, and I was just messing with ya, hope spring is just around the corner for you guys/gals up north.... |
Of the boats I have owned the Apache is fair the best. Boat is 28 years old and still solid. The worst was the HTM even my 19 ft Rinker was better than it.
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