Arneson or #6 Retrofit?
07-19-2018, 05:01 PM
#61
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Haha, no generator, just electric.....
Boat was set up by Velocity with 30p Maximus props that had been labbed. Being the factory had dialed it in I'm sure it was in it's sweet spot or at least very close.
Boat was set up by Velocity with 30p Maximus props that had been labbed. Being the factory had dialed it in I'm sure it was in it's sweet spot or at least very close.
07-20-2018, 07:23 AM
#63
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I'm actually in Charlotte, boat is in Sanford. However if I do this I'd imagine I will be down there testing?!?!
Talked with Jim Hering yesterday and another concern came up. Started by confirming that bow lift with the arneson would not be an issue. He stated there are large enough diameter props with enough rake mirroring rik's comments. Potential issue though, from a $$$ perspective. He felt that he could get the right prop out of the gate and then we could work it and dial it in. We were talking 18-19in diameter props with a bunch of rake. I asked, well what if that first set wasn't right? He said they have no exchange program and I'd need to buy another set...ouch... he said call Randy Garcia he has a ton of props. Called Randy, and he simply doesn't have a selection in the sizes I'd be needing to to try so pretty much the same issue. Buying multiple sets of props would hurt, no such issues with the merc and dialing in props.
Talked with Jim Hering yesterday and another concern came up. Started by confirming that bow lift with the arneson would not be an issue. He stated there are large enough diameter props with enough rake mirroring rik's comments. Potential issue though, from a $$$ perspective. He felt that he could get the right prop out of the gate and then we could work it and dial it in. We were talking 18-19in diameter props with a bunch of rake. I asked, well what if that first set wasn't right? He said they have no exchange program and I'd need to buy another set...ouch... he said call Randy Garcia he has a ton of props. Called Randy, and he simply doesn't have a selection in the sizes I'd be needing to to try so pretty much the same issue. Buying multiple sets of props would hurt, no such issues with the merc and dialing in props.
Last edited by hotstang46; 07-20-2018 at 07:35 AM.
07-20-2018, 07:57 AM
#64
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Just FYI, I ran a set of 625 Ilmors in my 38 Fountain for 5 years with XR uppers and Imco -2 shorties behind Imco extension boxes with no drive issues, then bought a set of 710 Ilmors and ran them for a season with the same set up with no issues. The Ilmors don't produce torque like the Mercs do so drives tend to fare better with them. When I bought my Donzi ZRC without power or drives I put my 710's in it and bought a used set of Arneson 7m's. on it because that thing is a beast compared to the Fountain.
Based on my experience, If you are going to run the 625's I think you'd be fine with a set of XR's on Imco boxes - but you cant go wrong with the Arneson's either.
Based on my experience, If you are going to run the 625's I think you'd be fine with a set of XR's on Imco boxes - but you cant go wrong with the Arneson's either.
07-20-2018, 08:58 AM
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During the process of rigging the boat, I found a decently close set of used props (4 blades actually). I started there to get a benchmark - boated happily with them for 2 years, then bought used 5 blades that were closer with less vibration. Then bought a set of new ones last year that seem to be the best of both worlds. Definitely takes patience, but I didn't loose very much money in the end going the used route first. If you can borrow cleavers to get yourself started, that's even better. They do come and go on the classifieds and swap shop depending on the season... and yep, Randy has some too, but there are way more out there than just in Miami.
07-20-2018, 08:59 AM
#66
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I'm actually in Charlotte, boat is in Sanford. However if I do this I'd imagine I will be down there testing?!?!
Talked with Jim Hering yesterday and another concern came up. Started by confirming that bow lift with the arneson would not be an issue. He stated there are large enough diameter props with enough rake mirroring rik's comments. Potential issue though, from a $$$ perspective. He felt that he could get the right prop out of the gate and then we could work it and dial it in. We were talking 18-19in diameter props with a bunch of rake. I asked, well what if that first set wasn't right? He said they have no exchange program and I'd need to buy another set...ouch... he said call Randy Garcia he has a ton of props. Called Randy, and he simply doesn't have a selection in the sizes I'd be needing to to try so pretty much the same issue. Buying multiple sets of props would hurt, no such issues with the merc and dialing in props.
Talked with Jim Hering yesterday and another concern came up. Started by confirming that bow lift with the arneson would not be an issue. He stated there are large enough diameter props with enough rake mirroring rik's comments. Potential issue though, from a $$$ perspective. He felt that he could get the right prop out of the gate and then we could work it and dial it in. We were talking 18-19in diameter props with a bunch of rake. I asked, well what if that first set wasn't right? He said they have no exchange program and I'd need to buy another set...ouch... he said call Randy Garcia he has a ton of props. Called Randy, and he simply doesn't have a selection in the sizes I'd be needing to to try so pretty much the same issue. Buying multiple sets of props would hurt, no such issues with the merc and dialing in props.
07-20-2018, 09:13 AM
#67
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Just FYI, I ran a set of 625 Ilmors in my 38 Fountain for 5 years with XR uppers and Imco -2 shorties behind Imco extension boxes with no drive issues, then bought a set of 710 Ilmors and ran them for a season with the same set up with no issues. The Ilmors don't produce torque like the Mercs do so drives tend to fare better with them. When I bought my Donzi ZRC without power or drives I put my 710's in it and bought a used set of Arneson 7m's. on it because that thing is a beast compared to the Fountain.
Based on my experience, If you are going to run the 625's I think you'd be fine with a set of XR's on Imco boxes - but you cant go wrong with the Arneson's either.
Based on my experience, If you are going to run the 625's I think you'd be fine with a set of XR's on Imco boxes - but you cant go wrong with the Arneson's either.
This year 3 outings was 27 hours, and the weather sucked the first 2 so we didn't go far.
07-20-2018, 10:29 AM
#68
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Just FYI, I ran a set of 625 Ilmors in my 38 Fountain for 5 years with XR uppers and Imco -2 shorties behind Imco extension boxes with no drive issues, then bought a set of 710 Ilmors and ran them for a season with the same set up with no issues. The Ilmors don't produce torque like the Mercs do so drives tend to fare better with them. When I bought my Donzi ZRC without power or drives I put my 710's in it and bought a used set of Arneson 7m's. on it because that thing is a beast compared to the Fountain.
Based on my experience, If you are going to run the 625's I think you'd be fine with a set of XR's on Imco boxes - but you cant go wrong with the Arneson's either.
Based on my experience, If you are going to run the 625's I think you'd be fine with a set of XR's on Imco boxes - but you cant go wrong with the Arneson's either.
Tibbstoy, what are you running as well, and power with your 540's?
Maybe running the larger props are a newer thing, I'm not sure the exact reason why it's being recomended. I know in theory a larger prop is "slower" however isn't it much like throwing big tires on a truck? You gear it back down and it's very similair performance characteristics of the smaller tires..... Is that analogy not close to the relationship between the size of the prop and rake? A larger prop just has a different rake to compensate? hope that makes sense lol
I know a #6 would take dialing in as well but I guess the point is that there are a good amount of props around the recommend starting for my boat with the #6 such that I could participate in an exchange program from someone like Randy Garcia. With what is being recommend on the arneson front there simply aren't a lot of there so it's more of a dial it in best we can with the help of guys like Rik and Jim and hope it's close. I have not yet found anyone that has a decent selection of props in that 18in range, in stock. I have yet to hear from Brett at B Blades but will be asking him too.
07-20-2018, 10:58 AM
#69
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MarginMN, What did your two boats run with those respective set ups?
Tibbstoy, what are you running as well, and power with your 540's?
Maybe running the larger props are a newer thing, I'm not sure the exact reason why it's being recomended. I know in theory a larger prop is "slower" however isn't it much like throwing big tires on a truck? You gear it back down and it's very similair performance characteristics of the smaller tires..... Is that analogy not close to the relationship between the size of the prop and rake? A larger prop just has a different rake to compensate? hope that makes sense lol
I know a #6 would take dialing in as well but I guess the point is that there are a good amount of props around the recommend starting for my boat with the #6 such that I could participate in an exchange program from someone like Randy Garcia. With what is being recommend on the arneson front there simply aren't a lot of there so it's more of a dial it in best we can with the help of guys like Rik and Jim and hope it's close. I have not yet found anyone that has a decent selection of props in that 18in range, in stock. I have yet to hear from Brett at B Blades but will be asking him too.
Tibbstoy, what are you running as well, and power with your 540's?
Maybe running the larger props are a newer thing, I'm not sure the exact reason why it's being recomended. I know in theory a larger prop is "slower" however isn't it much like throwing big tires on a truck? You gear it back down and it's very similair performance characteristics of the smaller tires..... Is that analogy not close to the relationship between the size of the prop and rake? A larger prop just has a different rake to compensate? hope that makes sense lol
I know a #6 would take dialing in as well but I guess the point is that there are a good amount of props around the recommend starting for my boat with the #6 such that I could participate in an exchange program from someone like Randy Garcia. With what is being recommend on the arneson front there simply aren't a lot of there so it's more of a dial it in best we can with the help of guys like Rik and Jim and hope it's close. I have not yet found anyone that has a decent selection of props in that 18in range, in stock. I have yet to hear from Brett at B Blades but will be asking him too.
07-20-2018, 11:14 AM
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I've seen about 13mph on average over IMCO SCX... 8-9 every day over Bravo XZ drives. I have tweaked the engines over the years, but nothing enough to change by maybe 10-20hp total. I don't run top end a lot due to spending all of my time on Lake Michigan and having a young family. My bottom needs blueprinting pretty badly and I still have some hook which needs to go. I plan to address that this fall. That said, the boat behaves perfectly... just curious if I can squeeze some more out of it.
There's no question #6 drives can run smaller diameter props in most cases than ASD setups, but over time, the used market has gotten a lot more 17+ props with good rake angles. Part of that also depends on your gear ratio and horsepower... If you're looking in the 33-38p range, you have a good chance of finding a use one that's good.
I've been told you can subtract 3/4" diameter for every blade you add to a prop. So if you get a 18" 4 blade, it would act like a 17.25" 5 blade. That being said, adding blades adds stern lift. I haven't noticed a difference in 4's vs. 5's in how the boat handles at any given rake angle. My 4 blades are 18" diameter with 15degrees of rake and they run GREAT. Good planing time, good bow lift. 17" 5 blades are pretty challenging to plane on my boat. Most people with ASD's typically run 17.5" - 18" 5 blades and they all seem to work. I run 18 degrees of rake, have tried 15 and 21 and haven't noticed a difference. I get the same speed 4 vs. 5 blades throughout. I also have seen no difference in speed from 17.00 to 18.00" diameter. I'm sure going bigger yet in diameter may eventually hurt speed, but I haven't found a reason to buy a bigger than 18" prop either. The only reason I have for running 5 blades is that they are literally quieter... when the propshaft is at the surface, the 4 blades actually buzz a bit from having less consistent contact with the water. It's not dramatic (only I really notice it being the driver), but it can loosen bolts/nuts over time and probably could have other long term negative effects in the fatigue department.
I've heard some good and a lot of bad about Randy at Cobra... and every time I've talked to him about buying a used prop, I think he is high on pricing. I'm all about businesses getting what the market will bear, but when others have said he will mix and match to make sets... given all the variables like horsepower rating, the possibility of unmatched props getting welded and being slightly different from year to year (since the blade design changes as time goes on)... I would want to know the full story of the props I'm buying. I trust Brett at B-blades, but I again don't like the idea of not knowing the history of his props vs. buying from people that bought them new at a same or maybe higher price than a private sale.
The other consideration you may want to look into is weight and power consumption required to run a #6 and how it relates to your boat.
Hope that helps.
There's no question #6 drives can run smaller diameter props in most cases than ASD setups, but over time, the used market has gotten a lot more 17+ props with good rake angles. Part of that also depends on your gear ratio and horsepower... If you're looking in the 33-38p range, you have a good chance of finding a use one that's good.
I've been told you can subtract 3/4" diameter for every blade you add to a prop. So if you get a 18" 4 blade, it would act like a 17.25" 5 blade. That being said, adding blades adds stern lift. I haven't noticed a difference in 4's vs. 5's in how the boat handles at any given rake angle. My 4 blades are 18" diameter with 15degrees of rake and they run GREAT. Good planing time, good bow lift. 17" 5 blades are pretty challenging to plane on my boat. Most people with ASD's typically run 17.5" - 18" 5 blades and they all seem to work. I run 18 degrees of rake, have tried 15 and 21 and haven't noticed a difference. I get the same speed 4 vs. 5 blades throughout. I also have seen no difference in speed from 17.00 to 18.00" diameter. I'm sure going bigger yet in diameter may eventually hurt speed, but I haven't found a reason to buy a bigger than 18" prop either. The only reason I have for running 5 blades is that they are literally quieter... when the propshaft is at the surface, the 4 blades actually buzz a bit from having less consistent contact with the water. It's not dramatic (only I really notice it being the driver), but it can loosen bolts/nuts over time and probably could have other long term negative effects in the fatigue department.
I've heard some good and a lot of bad about Randy at Cobra... and every time I've talked to him about buying a used prop, I think he is high on pricing. I'm all about businesses getting what the market will bear, but when others have said he will mix and match to make sets... given all the variables like horsepower rating, the possibility of unmatched props getting welded and being slightly different from year to year (since the blade design changes as time goes on)... I would want to know the full story of the props I'm buying. I trust Brett at B-blades, but I again don't like the idea of not knowing the history of his props vs. buying from people that bought them new at a same or maybe higher price than a private sale.
The other consideration you may want to look into is weight and power consumption required to run a #6 and how it relates to your boat.
Hope that helps.
