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-   -   Arneson or #6 Retrofit? (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/355395-arneson-6-retrofit.html)

Marginmn 07-20-2018 11:38 AM


Originally Posted by Wildman_grafix (Post 4639002)
When you say 5 years how many hours was that? The reason I ask is the hours I used to put on when in Indy and now isn't even close. Here 1 year can be 100-200 hours no problem. In Indy that would take several years.

This year 3 outings was 27 hours, and the weather sucked the first 2 so we didn't go far.

Good point. I put more hours on the Pontoon than I did my Fountain or my current Donzi. I would guess around 50 hours a year on the Fountain back then.

Marginmn 07-20-2018 11:50 AM


Originally Posted by hotstang46 (Post 4639019)
MarginMN, What did your two boats run with those respective set ups?

Tibbstoy, what are you running as well, and power with your 540's?

Maybe running the larger props are a newer thing, I'm not sure the exact reason why it's being recomended. I know in theory a larger prop is "slower" however isn't it much like throwing big tires on a truck? You gear it back down and it's very similair performance characteristics of the smaller tires..... Is that analogy not close to the relationship between the size of the prop and rake? A larger prop just has a different rake to compensate? hope that makes sense lol

I know a #6 would take dialing in as well but I guess the point is that there are a good amount of props around the recommend starting for my boat with the #6 such that I could participate in an exchange program from someone like Randy Garcia. With what is being recommend on the arneson front there simply aren't a lot of there so it's more of a dial it in best we can with the help of guys like Rik and Jim and hope it's close. I have not yet found anyone that has a decent selection of props in that 18in range, in stock. I have yet to hear from Brett at B Blades but will be asking him too.

With the same set up, my 38 Fever with the first generation small steps ran 85 with Merc 525's and a set of Bravo 32's I believe. When I put the 625' Ilmors in it I got 88-89 out of it running PX5's, and it ran 95 when I put the Ilmor 710's in it also with PX5's.

hotstang46 07-20-2018 11:50 AM


Originally Posted by Tibbstoy2 (Post 4639028)

The other consideration you may want to look into is weight and power consumption required to run a #6 and how it relates to your boat.

Hope that helps.

Good point on the weight and power consumption. It has been discussed however that more weight hanging off the rear of my particular hull may likely be a good thing. The conversation went so far as when we get the boat back in the water we may actually want to add some weight to the rear of the boat regardless of which way I go?!? A lot of the Arneson vs #6 internal discussion with my guys working with me has been about how level my boat runs with the staggered engines and the need for increased leverage to run on the rear pad. My people on the velocity side (Kenny and Steve)are guessing that the #6 may be a better choice for that reason. However of course there are more factors than just that to consider.

I don't have any facts to back this statement up but I would imagine a dry sump 6 to be very efficient, with less drive train loss than my Konrads. I wonder theoretically how much loss there is on respective drives on a % basis. Has anyone ever seen anything comparing the different offerings with published numbers or percentages? ie bravo, #6, arneson, etc etc??

Tibbstoy2 07-20-2018 12:16 PM


Originally Posted by hotstang46 (Post 4639038)
Good point on the weight and power consumption. It has been discussed however that more weight hanging off the rear of my particular hull may likely be a good thing. The conversation went so far as when we get the boat back in the water we may actually want to add some weight to the rear of the boat regardless of which way I go?!? A lot of the Arneson vs #6 internal discussion with my guys working with me has been about how level my boat runs with the staggered engines and the need for increased leverage to run on the rear pad. My people on the velocity side (Kenny and Steve)are guessing that the #6 may be a better choice for that reason. However of course there are more factors than just that to consider.

I don't have any facts to back this statement up but I would imagine a dry sump 6 to be very efficient, with less drive train loss than my Konrads. I wonder theoretically how much loss there is on respective drives on a % basis. Has anyone ever seen anything comparing the different offerings with published numbers or percentages? ie bravo, #6, arneson, etc etc??

I think either way, you should see hydrodynamic efficiency improvements with the #6 over the Konrads... mainly because of where the bullet is while on plane (surfacing). From a drivetrain parasitic drag standpoint, if you run dry sump 6's, that would have to help vs. wet sump, but you will always fight the inherent drag of running multiple sets of bevel gears (known efficiency loss from changing the shaft direction 2x) that you certainly would see less from in a ASD setup (since the shafts are parallel). There is an article about how Mercury determined their surface drives use less hp to push than a XR drive. It would just be surprising if a 6 would use more power than an ASD given the simplicity. The other thought I could see is if you could get benefit in the angle of the propshaft given that an ASD has to tip down from a ball socket vs. any bevel gear/vertical shaft type drive being able to run the bullet as parallel to the water as you'd want... giving more chance of positive trim. Many boats with surfacing props (6's or ASD) don't seem to benefit from positive trim though.

The weight distribution thought is interesting - I went with BAM 1350 transmissions (heavier) vs. the Velvet 72LHP because I was worrying about the same thing... not that this makes nearly the difference the #6 would off the transom.

hotstang46 08-15-2018 01:25 PM

Arneson Surface drives are on order. They are both a great product, both have some positives and negatives. Came down to wanting to support people that have supported me over the years and Rik from Arneson has always been there for me. The other large draw is that the Arnesons are new, the 6's would have been re-built. Finally, if I were to have a problem no one in my area is equipped to work on a 6, however should a problem pop up with the arneson the design is so simple my guys here can help me, avoiding having to take the 6's off and ship them off. I'm excited to work with Rik again on this project. I will keep everyone posted.

Also, if you have or know someone with some 17.5 or 18in diameter 30 pitch props for sale please let me know. I'll be on the hunt for some used ones as I may need more than one set

payuppsucker 08-15-2018 01:54 PM


Originally Posted by hotstang46 (Post 4643870)
Arneson Surface drives are on order. They are both a great product, both have some positives and negatives. Came down to wanting to support people that have supported me over the years and Rik from Arneson has always been there for me. The other large draw is that the Arnesons are new, the 6's would have been re-built. Finally, if I were to have a problem no one in my area is equipped to work on a 6, however should a problem pop up with the arneson the design is so simple my guys here can help me, avoiding having to take the 6's off and ship them off. I'm excited to work with Rik again on this project. I will keep everyone posted.

Also, if you have or know someone with some 17.5 or 18in diameter 30 rake props for sale please let me know. I'll be on the hunt for some used ones as I may need more than one set

Good choice. Looking forward to see this.

rvtransport 08-15-2018 03:00 PM

Let us know how it turns out! I am thinking Arnesons in future also.

Drake22.250 08-16-2018 05:25 AM


Originally Posted by hotstang46 (Post 4643870)
Arneson Surface drives are on order. They are both a great product, both have some positives and negatives. Came down to wanting to support people that have supported me over the years and Rik from Arneson has always been there for me. The other large draw is that the Arnesons are new, the 6's would have been re-built. Finally, if I were to have a problem no one in my area is equipped to work on a 6, however should a problem pop up with the arneson the design is so simple my guys here can help me, avoiding having to take the 6's off and ship them off. I'm excited to work with Rik again on this project. I will keep everyone posted.

Also, if you have or know someone with some 17.5 or 18in diameter 30 pitch props for sale please let me know. I'll be on the hunt for some used ones as I may need more than one set

What horsepower are you running? I have 856 a side and have 18x35x18 Mercury props. I hit rev limiters at 6k. May be for sale after season.

hotstang46 08-16-2018 07:48 AM

Stock 625hp Ilmor motors. Per Ilmor, redline is 6300 but useable power ends about 6100rpm. I did quote weight of the boat earlier and have no idea where I got it from but was wrong. Weight of the boat is about 9500-10k.

Drake22.250 08-16-2018 02:51 PM

Before putting the sterlings in I had 525’s and hit rev limiters at 5400 if my memory serves right. 18x30x18. They were wrong for my top gun, need more than 30 degree. Sucks trying to throw 10 k darts at the board..


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