Arneson or #6 Retrofit?
 

Reaching out for any input that anyone would like to give, tough decision and alot of $$ outlay. Plus my girlfriend banned me from even calling friends and having to listen to me talk about drives, don't blame her ha

Just recently bought a 390 Velocity. I have the boat down in FL with Kenny "the velocity guy" :) who originally built this boat. I'm getting some minor things done but almost completely sold on a retrofit. The boat has low hour ilmor 625's, staggered, and Konrad drives. I know the Konrads are bulletproof at my hp level but they simply scrub too much speed, plus no cool rooster tale lol. I ran her only a few times after purchase and mid 80's is all she really has in her.

bravo, imco, all of that stuff is just a no go, I'm not okay with driving like a grandma living on borrowed time.

Kenny and Steve Stepp met up today and talked about my options. If I undertake this they will both be involved. The goal is a very reliable 100mph boat. They aren't really trying to steer me one way or another but both seem to be preferential to the #6. I think sometimes people may not recommend an Arneson outright because they just don't have a lot of experience with them, which makes it justifiable. Plus let's face it. The reality is there are so many 6's out there it would likely be the "easier project" to get fully set up and running right. The flip side to that is for me personally, I've purchased an Arneson before and I think they are, a superior design to the 6. Less mechanically complex, lighter, Etc etc. plus having Rik there at the factory, being the super awesome resource he is, leaves me no doubt we can get the arneson dialed in. The one other thing is the #6's are reman and the arneson would be brand new. I think there is a lot to be said for factory new regardless of who rebuilt the 6's. Here is the only reason for the 6 that may bear some weight (they are dry sump btw), Steve in speaking with Kenny seemed to be concerned about bow lift with the arneson. My boat already runs extremely flat and struggles to get on the rear pad with the staggered engines. Definitely don't want to make that more of a struggle. No way to know for sure but it seems a valid concern. I have read about some bow lift issues with arneson in the past. Rik's view on it is that bow lift will not be an issue. He stated that hering and merc now have expanded the line props and have certain rake specifications not previously offered a number of years ago, leaving those issues in the past. The last consideration here is resale. I know I'm breaking out the $$$ but when I do sell this boat (and I do seem to move through boats quick). Which will have better mass appeal and higher resale (and if you do think so would it even be considerable)? I'm not sure but for me personally I was considering hustler slingshots as opposed to this velocity for the only reason being there were some with Arneson's on the market, however I may not be the norm. I guess the bottom line is both will be problem free at my power levels. I want a super reliable 100mph boat. I think either one will get me very close if not over that.

few pics of the boat!!

good looking boat... id lean towards the arneson setup

what tranny setup are you considering? shiftable crashboxes? bam? nxt?

I don't see any way you are going pick up 15+ mph and get to a 100mph with just a drive change.

A buddy of mine has a 41' with 850's and Imco SCX-4 drives.. runs over 100..

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...6993d64ebf.jpg

Well, ask Jeff Tibbe how much he gained when he put Arnesons on his 32 Active Thunder.

We see a lot of customers with Bravos gaining 10 mph in the mid range and top end and the drives on this boat are slower than the same boat with Bravos so I don't see a problem with that estimate.

I struggle to see the value in either option, sticking $50k in drives in a $100k boat just does not make sense to me. If it were me I would enjoy the boat for a few years and then change boats. There will always be someone faster.

I agree unless you REALLY love the boat.... go buy a Fountain with 600's staggered will go 100+ daily and be reliable.

I just finished a project that I used the Arneson ASD-8 to handle the massive torque, " https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...project-4.html " This drive is as simple as it gets with minimal parts to get the job done and Rik is always just a phone call away with a huge wealth of information and first hand knowledge. As long as the boat is a stepped hull design with sufficient lift, I would go Arneson! Hands Down......
The #6 dry sump would be a second choice only if I had to have huge amounts of lift on the bow. My project was a cat so Arneson was a no brainer.

I did the arneson conversions , it was a pretty straight forward install ,worked out well and I liked the results . The only thing I did not like was paying for the sets of props used for testing .

I've never owned a #6 boat but I do love my Arnesons. Simple, reliable, efficient.............and fun.

I will call Craig Colabella and ask about boxes, good idea and thank you. I did ask about blue printing and he basically said with the cost of that, and maybe maybe 1-2 mph he didn't think it to be worth it unless I was racing. Which obviously I am not. The Konrads really do scrub that speed, literally everyone I have talked to has said so. My understanding in talking with Konrad themselves is that their drive was initially set up for diesel applications with the Military. Being built to be used in the harshest conditions and not break. I don't think eeking out every last mph out of them was a major concern when it was initially designed. I really do love Velocities as well, I'm not trying to start a war here so I'll just say that a fountain is probably not in my future and leave it at that. They are great, fast boats, just not my cup of tea.

Also, I do want to clarify. Steve and Kenny did not advise against the Arneson, they simply said they had a concern with bow lift and had not worked with the product before, meaning it may take a little longer to set up. Rik from Arneson alleviated the bow lift concern. They did also go on to say if I did do the conversion that either would be a stout, efficient package that would help wake the boat up.

Just wondering if Steve suggested going to side by side instead of staggered as a side by side 390 Velocity is faster then the staggered. I do realize that will require even more dollars, LOL

What ever, I am enjoying your project and with Kenny and Steve helping you will end up with a fast good running boat.

Padraig

It is very likely I won't have any major transom work needed if I go Arneson, likely a bolt and go. I would think doing that would cost $$$$ as you suggested but I will ask.

Spoke with the guys at Konrad again just now, below is my set up. Not to sound stupid here but I just don't have a lot of experience with modifying bravo stuff. I know the term stand off box and adding one really has been mentioned alot around those drives here on the forums but I've never looked into that. I thought my boat already had them and it does. Mike over at Konrad (incredibly helpful guy) pretty much re iterated that I am at where I'm at with the Ace drives. I have a high x dimension with the shorties, drives are pushed back, and I'm propped right. Blue printing in his opinion as well would be a waste of money on their drives. If I do keep the Konrads I will be refinishing them, that is for sure. Going to have the paint removed from the lowers and left raw as well.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...77df260380.jpg

where is the prop shaft in relation to the bottom ?? you say your down on speed with the current setup, at 625 hp ? #6's rob power, take's some hp to spin them, you may spend a bunch of cash and be very close to where you are now..........BTW I may have a buyer for the konrad's if you remove them.....god luck

at that power level I would do an scx helmet and upper switch and run the sc lower. if you have issues with the lower gears you can then upgrade to the scx lower with cleavers... I did it on my tiger along with whipples and went from low 80's to 92 and no prop testing

Couldn't tell you exactly but all parties involved in building this boat (Steve Stepp, Kenny, and Konrad) have all said the x dimension is already pretty high on this boat and stand nothing to gain. Don't know if this references anything but it has been mentioned to me that the boat won't even plane with 4 blades, which I assume has to do with the high X.

In regards to the number 6 I have nothing to personally refute what you've said. I honestly do not know that much about them and am relying on the knowledge of others. Again I have been told that a 700merc NXT combo runs 115, and maybe that's ideal, perfect conditions, who knows. I do believe that boat was staggered (kenny or someone may correct me here on that, not sure). BUT, I would think despite having more rotating mass due to larger components the dry sump design would use less power than the NXT under load?? Plus that's only 150 more hp than I have total. So with all things being even, and especially being my ilmor engines come in weighing much less I tend to believe the numbers that have been thrown around. That would be one expensive rooster tale lol

I have a set of ASD 7m kits on my boat that I installed 2 years ago that I might sell. Freshwater only. Never left in water. Email me for pics,in informati,etc... [email protected]
Thanks Cary

Does Ilmor even rebuild the V-10's anymore? They rebuilt my 700's a few years back but since then I called them with a tech question and was given the number of some ex-Dodge engineer in Detroit for reference in case I ever need to have my 700's rebuilt again. And then there's Boostpower out in Calf who are not just rebuilding them but bumping them up to the 770HP range. Haven't talked with anybody who's ever done that rebuild with them to get their feedback though.

Sounds like you are leaning towards Arnesons, great drives but has anyone done one in in that same hull? My opinion for what it is worth, you are going to spend a ton of money and time on a project that is a science experiment. It will cost more than you think and you will run into the unforeseen. And when you get it all together you get to spend $10k minimum on high rake #6 props. I still dont see spending that kind of coin on that hull. Apologies for the lack of optimism.

The $$ for the conversion is not as bad as you guys are thinking. I have a few other factors at play here that I really don't want to get into. Suffice to say if I'm going to do the conversion now is the time, the financial impact will will be mitigated by some other factors.

I talked to one of the head guys over at ilmor well before I purchased the boat because I had a concern about product support. It was explained to me that most parts to these v10's are shared with other applications. He also stated that they rebuild them at their manufacture plant in Michigan. They plan on supporting the product for as long as they are out there for various stated reasons during our conversation. After easing those concerns I struck i deal on the boat. I'm tired of aftermarket shops (I know there are some good ones) so it was very important to me with the purchase of this boat that I have unmolested running gear that be serviced by the manufacturer of the product.

I believe Kenny told me that two velocity boats made had arnesons, both diesel, which I'm assuming ended up in Europe?!? I did just ask him and he is going to reach out to Steve to see if we can get any statistical data. So yes they have seen the Arneson before, just not alot of them. I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth but I believe Stepp has a ton of lake X experience, hence more experience setting up the 6's.

There's a pair of #6 boxes and transom assemblies in the swap shop if your looking