True Length
 

So, I'm reading in another thread....about true XX' boats.

WEll, Fountains get a bad rap on this board, but it's interesting to read this. Other boats as well, but true length is brought up many times.

Why are boats with swim platforms called "a 29' boat that you pay 32' $$ for" (Shorgasm's good ole' bust on my boat as an example)

Why don't we call those boats, XX' and call the ones without a swim platform a "llong XX' boat"

For example, a 38 Fountain is apparently to many on this board a 35' boat with beak and platform. But, to the same folks on OSO, 38' Cig is a 38' boat. Why is the Cig not a "long 37' boat"?

And actually, the OAL of a 38 Fountain is 38', a 38' Cig is 37'6". So, really a 38 Cig is not 38' either.

A 32' Fountain is 32' long, a 32' Active Thunder is 31'8". Why isn't the Thunder a "long 32' boat"?

Why does it always have to be "that boat isn't XX', it's shorter". Why can't it be the other way around?

So, I think Formula has it figured out. How long is a 382 FasTech? LOL!

Just some thoughts from my feeble little mind.

Mark

All I know is my "true length" is just over 8" .....without a beak!:eek: ;) :D

j/k:D

Formula includes the platform also... When I tell people my boat is a 31 {Bullet} They dont believe it !!! It is 31'8" Without a platform. Sooooo to compare It must be a 33 !!!!!:D

I think it has a lot to do with whether the swim platform is integrated or not. Usually if there is a swim platform on a Cigarette or AT, it is a bolt on aluminum one and it's an option. The manufacturer states it size w/o the platform. The beak is another story.:D

32 Fever,

I had a Baja 272 which was equal to their 25 Outlaw. With the swim platform moulded in the Coast Guard requires it to be added into the overall boat length. So the 27 with a fiberglass moulded swim platform was equal to the 25 with a bolt on swim platform that was not counted in the overall length.

Now that I have a 36 Outlaw with the bolt on swim platform, I am impressed with how much boat I have compared to others. I have rafted up with two 38 Fountains and recently with a 38 Sonic. My boat is every bit as big, but it is only considered a 36 foot boat.

I would not let anyone bust your chops over the actual size of the boat. Fountain does come up a little short when you have to factor both the swim platform and the beck, but they make up for it in other ways. They are not trying to pull anything, this is just how they have to be measured.

Mark

Obviously overall length is measured differently by manufacturers and it impacts true cabin size, deck space, engine room space etc.
What would be interesting is hull waterline length. That dimension should have some bearing on time to reach plane since a greater waterline length means more wetted area. Or am I all wet !

ed

Dock put it very well.

This might quite possibly be the reason: (see pic)

It's manufacturer's preference. Some measure Wetted surface hull length...Some measure from the very tip of the molded-in swim platform to the bow pulpit.

I agree with BN. It's all if the platform is molded in. Since many manufactures (styles without molded platforms) offer a platform as an option, they can't really include the platform in the length of the boat.

Although checkmate has done this with thier 25 convincor model....(Bolt on platform)...went from model # 259 to 270. they now 'include' the bolt on in the OAL. I personally think it's wrong....and it's thier way of raising the prices on the new boats making you believe you are buying a 'bigger' boat, when in fact they are the same boat.

32 Fever,

I see your point and everyone elses, but dont worry about it, I have a 27 or maybe its a 26 oh and some say 25. Guess what. from 25-27, I hang and usually pass all of them, power for power.

Will

Centerlines are determined by Coast Guard rules on "molded" parts. If it bolts on, it is not counted in the overall length. If it is molded on, from the mold, it is counted.
Water length does make some differnce within 2-4 feet, but the real difference is in the bottom configuration and the balance of the boat. When I sold my "true" 32 and bought an "extended" 35, there was no comparison. The 35 "beak" runs true and lands soft, no pounding, no porpoising overall beter ride and faster and weght is 500lbs more.

If you have an integrated molded platform IE FOUNTAIN,(for lack of naming others, you are kidding yourself if you think thats the actual lenth of your boat. LOA(length over all)
I had a 31 scarab with a bolted on molded platform which made it 33'5"(it was 29 inches). Then the next Scarab 33 avs with a molded platform is the same length. ....But still a 31 foot boat.
a 36 outlaw is 35' somethin".. but still a true 35 somethin boat.
I dont know any manufacturer that counts a bolted on platform.
Also is a 32 Advantage different because the integrated platform is actualy part of the transom? Iwould call that a true 32.
Fountain...forget it, subtract 30 somethin inches for the platform and who knows for the beak. your 32 is really a 28 somethin.

But who cares we all knew this when we bought them right!!??!!

Mine has a beak, and that adds a foot! :D

I think length that touches the water line is a good spec that would be nice to compare. If you're boat shopping, that would be helpfull. Even if it is at rest, it's at least something. If it's at speed, I want to see the guy with the tape measure on a video!!!!

Dock,
I had a 250ES, so I had a 26'9" boat that is "the same" as the 27'2" boat called the 272. So, I came from a 27' long 25' boat and own a 25' long 32' boat that sure rides better:)

But why must people bash a boat with a molded platform or beak or gradually sloping bow or whatever, instead of saying things like, well, that Cig sure is a hell of a 37' long boat!

Velocity does on there 260 and 280 model. I really don't like that they took the 26 foot boat that they have been building for years and bolt on a swim platform and call it a 28. But they are still great boats.

And what about Pantera there 28 is much bigger than 28' but it gets put in the catagory with other 28 that are really about three feet shorter.

I'm with you on that Mike. The curve below the concave part of the beak is about the same shape as most other boats. And with the flare from the beak, I almost never get water on deck or spray in the cockpit. I will say though that my 29 Fever looks really small next to my buddy's 31 Bullet when we're on the work racks at the marina together.

"LOA" as defined in "Ship Design and Construction" by Taggart - The extreme length of a ship measured from the foremost point of the stem to the aftermost point of the stern .

That would include molded swim platforms and beaks, but not bolt-on platforms.

I am currently looking at a couple of 1989 36' Fevers that became 38' Fevers in '90 or '91. Same hull, beak and platform. How did they get the 36' and what is it really?:confused:

I know exactly what you're saying Mike. I do agree to some extent, but it would still be considered hull and not air. :D

I've attached a representation. A is the original, B is shown minus the carved out portion and c is a traditional hull minus the beak.

Sure, it's area that's carved out, but you lose the effective lift when crashing a wave. It would make a difference if it were there, I think. But you're right, on smooth water, the fwd 2/3 of a boat never sees water. :cool:

fountain and most all other manufactures measured from the bow to the back of the transom, thats why in 89-90 with fountain there were 33, 36, 40, then in 91 the industry changed the way that they measure boats, so then fountain changed the boat models to 35,38,42 to coincide with the new measuring standards. if the swim platform is actually molded into the hull it is counted with the lenght
later
Dave

Unless of course you're properly trimmed in rough water where you want the extra length. In flat water you want the least amout of wetted surface, in the rough you'll be glad you had the extra foot or two.

The CGS 41 actually 39 since it had no platform had a beak added so it would qualify for super V a few years ago. Also remember hearing about a fountain that had the beak cut off just before the Catalina Ski race cause the boat was 6" too long.

Ouch!!! That's got to hurt:eek: :D

Ha, hows this for ya, 27'7"in the water. 34'6" overall. What a beak, and its not even a fountain. I like the 28 ft designation when I have to pay for anything by the foot.

That's exactly what I was thinking when I first started reading this thread. Everyone who buys a boat, stands, sits, and/or rides in it. They obviously decided the boat was "big enough" for their needs, so who gives a rats azz what designation they put on it, though it does seem to me that beak owners are a little more touchy about this subject.;) :)

im not touchy!
i purchased mine on the bases that i love the boat, excellent handling and performance, awsome looking, comfortable for were i boat and its fast that was all i needed at the time of purchase.
Later
Dave

You are right...the 42 Fountains that ran in the Catalina ski race cut off 6" of the "beak" and qualified for the race which has a max of 39'. They don't count the swim plateform in the length of the boat for the race.

If they measured boats from the tip of the bow to the tip of the outermost part of the drives, would that curtail the molded swim platform comments by folks?

Size does'nt matter!:p

my 28 SABER is 28'1", no platform or beak. if it had both of these it would be 31'. certainly my boat would sound more impresive speed wise, with the same power if it was 31', correct?

32 fever,

no, then we would all be argueing about extension boxes

DOH! There is always a catch....

Of course, with a little custom work, you could take your 28 Saber and turn it into a 41 Saber......LOL!

The size only matters when you are paying for a slip, storage bottom wash etc. the owners of the big numbers and short boats are getting screwed!!

<<<<---------------------------------8"--------------------------------->>>>

i'm thinking a 8 foot plywood sheet for a swim platform, that gets me up to 36 and the ultra rare EXTENDA-BOW option for five more feet to get a 41:D

MY 34 SCARAB is 34 ft without the platform and about 36 with.

????????
 

Later, I always thought that fountain changed the 40 (12 Meter) to a 42' when they added the swim platform, not when they changed the way of measuring boats???


What about the old days of measuring boats from the transom to the bow eye???? boy boats would be small!!!

Re: ????????
 

that would be fare or weted surface like posted earlier.
My 23' is 25 including the bolt on glass swimm step but only 21' at the bow eye and 15' at water surface. Call it what you want I think Wellcraft was fair calling it a 23'. Charlie

Thats it im sellin my Fountain to buy an Apache...no one ****s with them.

Very interesting;
My thoughts are size does matter, boating and sex.
Weight in the forward part of the hull does matter in rough water, I never heard that mentioned, smooth water is a mute point except for speed, brain vibration is important! My 26ZX is almost 7000 pounds. Yes I have the scales tickets, long story.

How much does a 29 or 30 something fountain weigh?

I like others here have skewed measurements, 26.5 is really 27.2 OA, but I have more in the water than most for the same size class, bottom of transom forward 25 ish..
Very interesting topic.
Bryan

40 Footer
 

Cash, I would definetely say you have a 40 footer. 4" is close enough.

Besides when manufacturers make their boats within inches of the next foot, I believe it is fair enough to label a boat a 38' when it actually measures 37' 11". Plus it's easier for marketing.

Too Old:

Sounds like the typical argument from someone that is "length challenged". :D :D :D :D :D (just messing with ya)

Back4More.....How true !!!! NOBODY questions APACHE !!!

Hey Fred !!!! You gonna let Chaos get away with that !!:D