22' or so performance boats
 

So been away for a while, divorce, remarriage and just had a baby 16 months ago. Between business and personal a lot has gone on.

Anyway, I'm starting to look for a nice performance style 22-25 ft'er for NEXT summer, after the wife returns to work from maternity. Boat will most be in Lake Erie as we have a summer place in Port Dover on the shore's of Erie.

So I think I got it narrowed to a couple and wonders the member thoughts. Looking at:

1. 23 Ragal Velocity
2. 22 Sea Ray Pachange
3. 25 Larson Senza Spetre

Now I have seen quite a few posts on the first 2, but not a lot out there on the 25' Senza's?

Just looking for info, good/bad of each and getting back into boating after being away for a while.

Thanks, John

22 Donzi

22 Donzi looks like a nice boat, just not for me. Thanks

22 ZX or classic? I would think for Erie the ZX would be a much better boat.
or 26 ZX better yet.

True, the ZX are nice boats and the Classic isn't really for me. Just starting to look around and brush up on all make and models in that price range and size.

I had a 23' Regal Velocity, Very fast boat for the size, had a cool look but with the new baby, I wouldn't go that route as they ride like a brick.

Kind of in the same market--subscribed.

22 Progression.

BTW, there's some pretty significant differences in build quality / durability in the hull you listed.

Dont overlook a 24/7 variant of some sort....

We'll build you a brand new 24 'Banana Boat. If you aren't familiar with these they are actually a real deal 24' cigarette, 100% Aronow designed. Google Banana boats for their website. Charlie has good info on there about the whole history of them.

Jason,

Super Boat Long Island good boat in that size

Always had fun on Lake MI in my friends 22 Chaparral Villain.

22 Velocity Outboard has a lot of usable space and cuddy for its size. (The Regal Velocity's were not built to the same standards as Steve Stepp's builds)
24 Superboat
22-24 Progression
24 Pantera
22 Sonic (very rare)
23 Kryptonite (another very rare)
Good luck

Care to expand please? That is the WHOLE idea of asking questions is to find the good and the bad of each? I've been looking over various site and noticed that a friend actually had a Spectre back around 2005 and posted here. Will need to get intouch with him for sure.

Pachanga, seem what I have seen that they run nice, handles some big water and performs pretty well. Seems that top ends usually mid to high 60's. Smallest of the 3.

Regal Velocity, fastest and lightest of the 3, also seems the cheapest quality of the 3. More of a "drivers" boat with the pad and doesn't handle big water like the other 2. Seems to be able to run in the 70's usually.

Senza Septre, Biggest of the 3, Only one with the stepped hull DDC, Seems to be able to handle big water and appears to be a quality boat. seems to be in between the other 2 for top speed, mid to high 60's.

Not looking for a NEW boat. Looking for a good USED one as a stepping stone to something bigger in 5/8 yrs. At that time maybe a Top Gun, Donzi ZX or even an Apache???? See at that time. But something about 33 or bigger with twins, stepped hull and can weekend on if the need comes up.

At this time, I'm REALLY leaning towards the 25 Stepped hull Senza. Only issue I'm seeing is there's not a lot out there/limited supply. I do remember looking at them new back in '92/94 time. So bit sentimental too. Plus wife and son would like the more spacious cuddy.

Thanks for the help guys.

KEEP THE INFO COMING

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-powerboat-mo...ationFlag=true

For carting a toddler around Lake Erie this Baja Force would be hard to beat for the price providing it passed a survey. Plus it's only a couple of hours from Port dover.

Why not a Formula? They have the 223 and 242. Both are good in the rough water. The 223 will be faster with the 22° hull, but the 242 rides better. Good build quality and they hold their value. Not to mention there is always a few for sale at almost any given time.

Check out my 25' AT Tantrum in the classifieds.
https://www.offshoreonly.com/classif...um-o75234.html
Great for Erie, solid as brick s__t house.
And you will sell it in 5-ish years for what you buy it for today

I'd agree with the 25' AT. Or a 26' Sonic. The old Chaparral Villain 3 was a really cool 23' with decent build quality. There also was a Rinker 23' that was pretty fast with a 454 or 502. Stingray 23' was very fast with a 502. Just trying to think of the boats that could be a little more family friendly. One boat I always loved the look of was the Crownline 225 CCR. I liked the lines.

I have been getting calls and texts regarding Jason's post here.

Let me try to clear it up a bit. Jason is the GM at Outerlimits and he and I have been talking about Outerlimits, building some Banana Boats in the future.

We have the 24 foot center console molds and we may use that as the first run.

We tossed everything around from the old Cigarette layup that Don gave me back in the 70's, to a whole new look with a single step and a build in Epoxy.

All boats will be outboard powered only..... probably on a bracket..... to open up the interior space more.

Our intent is to finalize the plan ...... and then see what real interest there is.

Potential sales to Top Gun owners who would like a mini simple easy to use boat, out of the Cigarette mold.

Stay Tuned....................

One big thing that you will find about true "high performance" boats is that going fast is relatively easy. Going fast, handling rough water well and staying screwed together is another thing all together. To go fast and not fall apart, one has to build a light and strong hull. (Heavy is easy to build.) A light, strong hull is not only hard to build, it's expensive to build. (That's why heavy is easy - and cheap.) A Larson is a pure chopper gun hull and deck. That's the easiest, cheapest and heaviest way to build a boat. Try going fast in rough water in any chopper gun boat and watch it fall apart around you. (Spoiler Alert: I owned a 16' Larson Senza with a 115 HP Mercury outboard and did just that.) Of the three hulls you mentioned, the Velocity is clearly the best design and generally the best build quality. (Some of the Regal built Velocity hulls were not though.)

Just to give you an idea how much difference a well built, hand laid vacuum bagged 22' hull weighs, a 22' Progression (bare hull) is generally about 1,200 pounds. Even with a 300 HP outboard, you're still around 2,000 pounds ready to go. As for speed, with a slightly modified 200 HP Merc outboard, I run 77 on GPS. How do they hold up? My 1992 Progression is the first boat I've never had to have any structural repair done to. And I run it all the time on Lake Ontario. It's been worth every penny of the high initial purchase price. Hope that helps.

While I agree with 2S ^ to a very large extent, your still taking about a 22 foot boat. Yes light weight is faster, but there is more to life than top speed. On a little boat, weight isn't always the enemy. Weight is going to help the ride. Unless your racing, weight is kind of your friend to a certain extent.

I won't totally disagree there! Sometimes a heavier boat will take rough water somewhat better purely because it's crushing the waves. That said, heavy (generally chopper gun) construction won't hold up to that kind of beating for long.

As for a really good riding 22' boat, the 22 Donzi is pretty hard to beat. The narrow beam and round pad really gives a soft ride. Then again, there's next to no room inside.

Yeah, your not doing much other than sitting in mine either.... I do have more than enough room to stretch out in the cabin (if you want to call it that), its padded but you have to contort to get down there and your not sitting up, but it is sleepable,..I forget exactly but I think Im right around 3500-3800 pounds... and no chopper gun. 24 degree, narrow beam, a little tab and its surprising what it will eat.. But its far from a family boat. My friends 23 nova has like twice the room.

Personally I like the Regal Velocity best of all mentioned with the exception of the 25 AT. However the AT is bigger then what you say you want. I had a 23Regal Velocity. 454mag, 70/72 mph. The only mod was lightning headers. Roomy cabin and good handling. Takes through stuff as well as any 22 foot boat. Had it out many times in Lake Erie and Geogian Bay. That being said I would pick a Steve Stepp 22 if there was a choice.

Padraig

Thanks guys.

Ok here the deal, I already have some expensive classic cars and engine. So at this venture in my life, not going to invest a lot (new boat costs) for this venture till I find out what the rest of the family think about the whole boating deal.

This thread came out as I was originally to get a old Chris Craft 230 Scorpion. These were neat old boats that I have always liked and not to pricey with trailer, that I can tow if needed. Around here there in the 5-6,000 range with good surveys CND dollars.

So not looking to BUY ANYTHING this year 2019. This is just researching and find out info and various hulls and options. I have open up my $$$ thoughts to some newer, nicer and more performance styling boats. I have some resolved issues with Canadian government's tax department and they owe me just over $20K BACK from what I had to give them. So that will be where the boat $$$ come from.

I will say, I would also look at the Stingrays. They seems like a respectable boat for the size, performance and water handling.

Boats like the Donzi Classics, 22 Stepp Velocity's and possibly even the Villian III just are more just speed and less enjoyable for me with a son of his age (16 months as of this post). I WOULD like a boat with 2 adults on and say 1/3-1/2 tank of fuel, can hit in the 60's. Flat out pushing 40 just doesn't seem fun after a few runs.

Just with the majority of the time being on lake Erie, I don't think there is a 20' or less style of boat that would fit my "wants" list? Inboard, handle big water (if needed as I HAVE been stranded for a couple days in Erie PA due to water conditions), runs say 60 MPH and has room for my small family. Jet boats are just too rough, and Sea Doo's just not room. So that lead me towards the Scorpions. But maybe a Pachanga or 23 REGAL Velocity might come up for what I think is a good deal, not just the cheapest price, for not a lot more? Heck I seen some Chaparral 2350SX for 7K recently. Seems like a new version of a Scorpion.

THANK YOU for the help with these model, and possibly other that come up. This is just the start to a long ongoing journey to find what fits my needs. I have time.

Thank you John

THIS IS PERFECT INFO from someone who's owned one. THANK YOU. Would even look at a SB versions of this boat for 2 reason:
1. I heard there usually just as fast and maybe faster on top end, but less tq for holeshot/planing.
2. I just happen to have a Weiand 144 Supercharger set-up sitting on the shelf!!!.

Now being a CNC Machinist with my own 3 axis Cincinnati, I would make a water intercooler for this set up. Could do a cam/heads/supercharger/headers and easily run where I want too. Headers are the EXPENSIVE part of this deal. And the draw-thru EFI.

Thank you Padraig

Speed Junkie, where about are you located. You mention Erie Pa. If you are near there you may want to consider trailering down to Chautauqua Lake. A little more family friendly with a youngster.

As far as a 22/23 Velocity with a hot small block I too understand that they run great but never had the opportunity to run one.

Padraig

Id rule out a Donzi classic, with a baby, you need a cuddy cabin. Since you are after bang for the buck. I like the Pachanga idea. Out here in western Canada and the pacific northwest, they can be found for reasonable money. I looked at a Pachanga with new 454 for $15,000 CDN. I see them here, for between $10k to $15k CDN. Another boat built here in the pacific northwest is the Mirage Intruder. You can get a decent one for around $8k to $12k USD. Its a popular boat here on our little sea (ocean).

Here is some Mirage examples:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/b...907055158.html

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/b...906320433.html

https://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/b...906100437.html

Seattle in traffic is only 3hrs from me, always a few Mirages for sale there.

I own a Pachanga 22. I love it! It's not a feather so you're going to trade some speed but that weight also lets it hammer through some sloppy stuff that would have other 22's skipping like stones. They're a solid boat for sure. I've put it through some rough times in the 2+ years i've had it, and have had zero issues with things coming loose or falling apart. The cabin is obviously fairly small, but it really is functional for its size. I crawl down there and catch a nap now and then and with the vents open it passes a nice breeze so you don't roast. The full glass windshield makes it a little less "performance" looking but it's saved me from getting soaked a few times so far. I couldn't be happier with this boat so far. The only thing I can think of that I wish it had was an actual anchor locker up in the bow. It has an area for one if you wanted to cut it in, kind of......I keep the anchors in the floor storage and toss it over the side, then have to leap up over the glass to cleat it to the bow. Nor a big deal, but a locker would be a plus.

Ontario Canada. 45 mins from Port Dover/Turkey Point

Went over to Erie for corn roast or Erie Days and took my buddys 22 small cabin boat. Water kicked up Saturday night and Coast Gard shut everyone down from leaving Saturday night. Buddys brother and another offshore's came rolling in about an hr later as they crossed the lake in there 38's, one Scarab and the other a Fountain. LOL tried to follow them back MONDAY morning, but was like a popcorn popper, nope stay put.

Now I don't have a problem with these small boats I mentioned. As I doubt we'll cross the lake on one with the boy. But would like if something does start to blow up, I know I can safely get home. Like mentioned about the 22 Pachanga.

The Pachanga is a decent boat. Watch out for the drive. Many of them came with a big block and an alpha drive. The 23 Regal Velocity with big block came with a Bravo and hydraulic steering standard.

Padraig

A 20 degree deadrise boat may be a better choice given the baby. Some of these shorter deep v performance boats don't ride well at slower speeds. You don't want to get a boat that sucks to drive at 20-30mph and have the wife bark at you for driving 50mph+ because its too fast with the baby on board. Then nobody will be happy with the boat.

You seem pretty set on the pachanga, and I agree it's a good looking boat. I think you would be impressed with the space the 223ls formula has. The cuddy is easy to get in and out of. I know of 2 in my area with the 454 mag and they both do 60. They hold 75 gallons of gas so you dont have to worry about long rides and running out. The cockpit is larger with the 8.5' beam and pretty spacious.

The reason I keep mentioning the formula is because I have a 3 week old son and the formula I have is grea . The wife can put him in the cabin if it gets cold and they are comfortable. I have space for all the extra stuff I need with the young kid. Also you could look into the 223SS which would give you a smaller cabin and more cockpit space.

YES very much so I agree. Waiting to hear back from a guy I know that both him and his brother had 25 Senza to. Big bigger then originally was thinking, but other reviews I have seen said they were a nice boat and rode some bigger water well.