Is the sport of offshore racing dying?
09-23-2019, 04:16 PM
#93
Registered
I`m aware that APBA began with courses closer to shore in the 90`s but they still ran long offshore courses compared to what they have done since the year of 2000, as far as i remember there was a guy who had no experience whatsoever from powerboat racing or from the marine industry who became a APBA official in 1998 who decided to make these new rules from 2000 and on, this guy did apparently leave the sport in 2001 to never be heard from again. I agree however that something had to be done with the open class & superboat, but i think the sport is closer to death in 2019 than what it was in 1999.
I think offshore would gain massively both in popularity and more boats participating if the sport returned to it`s roots, and by that i dont mean racing miles away from shore in the middle of the atlantic, but stop having these silly courses they have today and return to longer courses with less turns and rough seas again. It`s usually not a good idea to make drastic rule changes to a sport in an attempt to make it more spectator or commercial friendly.
I think offshore would gain massively both in popularity and more boats participating if the sport returned to it`s roots, and by that i dont mean racing miles away from shore in the middle of the atlantic, but stop having these silly courses they have today and return to longer courses with less turns and rough seas again. It`s usually not a good idea to make drastic rule changes to a sport in an attempt to make it more spectator or commercial friendly.
It is never easy to admit when one’s opinion is proven wrong, and there’s no shame in it either, especially when presented with previously unknown facts. So, as the never to be heard from again guy, let me give you some facts:
1. I became chairman of APBA Offshore in 1999, after having raced for three plus seasons, served as the event representative and legal counsel for the offshore commission, served on the APBA national legal committee and board of directors. My father raced in the 1970’s and served in similar capacities. Btw - it is a myth that all races back in the 70’s-90’s were rough.
2. I co-chaired the group that created Factory Class Racing in 1996. By 1999, the spec classes were growing, which was another reason we went to that model for the big cats.
3. When I became chairman of offshore, race courses were already in the 5-6 mile range. I had nothing to do with it. On the contrary, the first thing I did was to lengthen the courses back to over ten miles. After the first race of the year, we switched back due to complaints from fans, sponsors, and racers that the event was boring and bad for TV.
4. In 2000, we lengthened the courses to 6-8 miles by adding an extra turn that took the boats further offshore and back again. It worked because it a) kept the boats close; b) increased passing; c) and kept the boats within view of the beach.
5. Boat counts, sponsorship, television, press coverage, etc., all were on the rise, until the 2003 boycott happened.
6. All the other challenges aside, there is no evidence to support the claim that longer, rougher races will increase participation, fans, television, and sponsorship. The evidence is actually to the contrary. An emotional, gut feeling about something does not count as evidence, especially when the “facts” underlying that feeling are not facts at all.
I really believe OPA is doing it the right way. Smitty is a leader who commands the respect of racers, sponsors, and race producers. Class One USA has great potential and if the Super Cat teams can tell their fearless leader to STFU and get in line, then the sport has a real chance for another renaissance.
09-23-2019, 06:28 PM
#94
Registered
Thread Starter
Really? i have heard from several different sources that the APBA official who decided to make these rules changes was somebody with no prior experience from offshore racing or from the boating industry in general and that this guy left APBA/offshore in 2001, but if it actually was you who decided to kill offshore racing then i have to congratulate you by making the dumbest decision in the history of offshore racing (no offence).
09-23-2019, 06:42 PM
#95
Registered
Thread Starter
Joe,
It is never easy to admit when one’s opinion is proven wrong, and there’s no shame in it either, especially when presented with previously unknown facts. So, as the never to be heard from again guy, let me give you some facts:
1. I became chairman of APBA Offshore in 1999, after having raced for three plus seasons, served as the event representative and legal counsel for the offshore commission, served on the APBA national legal committee and board of directors. My father raced in the 1970’s and served in similar capacities. Btw - it is a myth that all races back in the 70’s-90’s were rough.
2. I co-chaired the group that created Factory Class Racing in 1996. By 1999, the spec classes were growing, which was another reason we went to that model for the big cats.
3. When I became chairman of offshore, race courses were already in the 5-6 mile range. I had nothing to do with it. On the contrary, the first thing I did was to lengthen the courses back to over ten miles. After the first race of the year, we switched back due to complaints from fans, sponsors, and racers that the event was boring and bad for TV.
4. In 2000, we lengthened the courses to 6-8 miles by adding an extra turn that took the boats further offshore and back again. It worked because it a) kept the boats close; b) increased passing; c) and kept the boats within view of the beach.
5. Boat counts, sponsorship, television, press coverage, etc., all were on the rise, until the 2003 boycott happened.
6. All the other challenges aside, there is no evidence to support the claim that longer, rougher races will increase participation, fans, television, and sponsorship. The evidence is actually to the contrary. An emotional, gut feeling about something does not count as evidence, especially when the “facts” underlying that feeling are not facts at all.
I really believe OPA is doing it the right way. Smitty is a leader who commands the respect of racers, sponsors, and race producers. Class One USA has great potential and if the Super Cat teams can tell their fearless leader to STFU and get in line, then the sport has a real chance for another renaissance.
09-23-2019, 06:54 PM
#96
Registered
Really? i have heard from several different sources that the APBA official who decided to make these rules changes was somebody with no prior experience from offshore racing or from the boating industry in general and that this guy left APBA/offshore in 2001, but if it actually was you who decided to kill offshore racing then i have to congratulate you by making the dumbest decision in the history of offshore racing (no offence).
09-23-2019, 07:01 PM
#97
Registered
Well, in what way have i been proved to be wrong with my theory that making offshore racing to inshore racing has killed the sport? most of the drivers/throttlemen that i have talked with about this issue agree that they prefered to race under the old rules (Johnny Tomlinson, Steve Curtis, Biorn Gjelsten, Terry Ayres, Felix Serralles, Randy Scism, Billy Moore, Paul Whittier). What positive has come out of these rule changes?
09-23-2019, 08:02 PM
#98
Registered
I was thrown into offshore racing the day I met Arneson just after he bought his 1st boat, and I experienced all the '70's racing, ( sometimes working 20 hours at a time prepping a boat) then again in the '80's rigging Copland's goofy 8-engine Cougar cat, Mr Terrible, Mod V-P's,
etc etc...... I just liked watching the racing. I didn't care about how many spectators..... Barely saw anything on TV...
Also, I crewed in F-1 Tunnels.... Back and forth with so many different F-1 series - versions to count...... But F-1 was close to the spectators. They loved it.....
I believe off shore ( near the shore enough for spectators to watch).... Will be great, no matter how big or small the venue is.
It is up to boat owners to make the sport work.
Look at one of the most successful series on the planet: SCCA sport car / club racing. Off shore 'should' ( and continue) do what they do.... Spend their own money to race and have a ball !!!!
I have so much respect for you drivers hauling ass at an altitude of 25 feet launching off a roller !!!!
etc etc...... I just liked watching the racing. I didn't care about how many spectators..... Barely saw anything on TV...
Also, I crewed in F-1 Tunnels.... Back and forth with so many different F-1 series - versions to count...... But F-1 was close to the spectators. They loved it.....
I believe off shore ( near the shore enough for spectators to watch).... Will be great, no matter how big or small the venue is.
It is up to boat owners to make the sport work.
Look at one of the most successful series on the planet: SCCA sport car / club racing. Off shore 'should' ( and continue) do what they do.... Spend their own money to race and have a ball !!!!
I have so much respect for you drivers hauling ass at an altitude of 25 feet launching off a roller !!!!
Last edited by mountie; 09-23-2019 at 08:09 PM.
09-23-2019, 08:19 PM
#99
Correspondent
Correspondent
Joe,
It is never easy to admit when one’s opinion is proven wrong, and there’s no shame in it either, especially when presented with previously unknown facts. So, as the never to be heard from again guy, let me give you some facts:
1. I became chairman of APBA Offshore in 1999, after having raced for three plus seasons, served as the event representative and legal counsel for the offshore commission, served on the APBA national legal committee and board of directors. My father raced in the 1970’s and served in similar capacities. Btw - it is a myth that all races back in the 70’s-90’s were rough.
2. I co-chaired the group that created Factory Class Racing in 1996. By 1999, the spec classes were growing, which was another reason we went to that model for the big cats.
3. When I became chairman of offshore, race courses were already in the 5-6 mile range. I had nothing to do with it. On the contrary, the first thing I did was to lengthen the courses back to over ten miles. After the first race of the year, we switched back due to complaints from fans, sponsors, and racers that the event was boring and bad for TV.
4. In 2000, we lengthened the courses to 6-8 miles by adding an extra turn that took the boats further offshore and back again. It worked because it a) kept the boats close; b) increased passing; c) and kept the boats within view of the beach.
5. Boat counts, sponsorship, television, press coverage, etc., all were on the rise, until the 2003 boycott happened.
6. All the other challenges aside, there is no evidence to support the claim that longer, rougher races will increase participation, fans, television, and sponsorship. The evidence is actually to the contrary. An emotional, gut feeling about something does not count as evidence, especially when the “facts” underlying that feeling are not facts at all.
I really believe OPA is doing it the right way. Smitty is a leader who commands the respect of racers, sponsors, and race producers. Class One USA has great potential and if the Super Cat teams can tell their fearless leader to STFU and get in line, then the sport has a real chance for another renaissance.
I would add that the Factory classes were born to die with the sharp decline in V-bottom sales for Fountain, Donzi and Formula—the biggest names in the class—that began in the early 2000s As for OSS, it was doomed from the start as are all such ventures run by committee—no worse, a committee of race team owners who rarely agreed on anything other than their dislike for Michael Allweiss. Mr. Allweiss and I have politely disagreed on a few things during the years, but we both knew the concept of an owners committee being in charge and making all decisions for "the good of the sport" was pure folly from the start. As it proved to be.
The simple fact is that at some times the leader/commissioner of any sport has to be the final world now and then. You can call it dictatorial. I call it reality. For a puppet commissioner in sports, look no further than the NFL's Roger Goodell. NASCAR's France family wasn't always beloved, nor is/was F1's Bernie Eccelstone. But no one could call them unsuccessful.
I admire the passion of the person who started this thread. I just think it's misguided and less than totally informed. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion but when it comes time to support it you need facts, as Mr. Allweiss made clear in point No. 6. Also, for the record, I talk with John Tomlinson and other offshore racers every week and not one has ever told me he'd like to return to old-school offshore racing.
Last edited by Matt Trulio; 09-23-2019 at 08:24 PM.
09-23-2019, 08:21 PM
#100
Registered
Thread Starter
Every offshore racer prefers rough water, and the guaranteed flat calm venues on inland lakes and rivers are boring to throttleman. I know each of the men mentioned in your post and I’d be surprised if any of them said the 2000 Super Cat rules ruined the sport. That’s just an absurd assertion on its face, unsupported by any credible evidence.
Last edited by Joestlaachmkr; 09-23-2019 at 08:41 PM.
