Classic 22 surface drive conversion
 

I’m building a classic 22 from the ground up and want to understand the approximate cost to install a surface drive, excluding the engine

thanks!

You're going to be upside down in it either way - why not be WAY upside down!!

agree, And expect to be upside down. This would be about that I would pass on

What kind of surface drive??????

I guess I don’t know enough about all the brands- just learning. I would prefer a good to upper brand (Arneson)? I will probably be around 800-900 max power

Why overpower the hull so much?

tgats the target but could be less depending on outdrive

Wasn't there a member awhile back with one that had a blackhawk drive and big power that was quite a handful?

the mailman?

didnt that one flip and sink?

That’s the one.

800-900 hp with a Blackhawk sounds like a viable combination. Good luck. If the one that sank was the black one at the shootout, it had a modified hull and a pad added. The driver, on an adrenaline rush did not back off the throttle when the boat got squirrely. Glad he was not badly hurt. There are 22 Classics running more hp and running very stable.

Interesting. Why the 22 Classic though? There are so many great fast boats out there. I like the Classic as a cruiser but they aren't the best hull designs. If it has to be the Classic, I'd focus on the bottom and strengthening the boat up before going bonkers on an expensive engine and drive. It has a rounded keel, so you're going to want to add a pad potentially. Some fast ones don't have a pad and rely on running on the K planes. Either way, it's going to be a dangerous ride.

I'd just do a super clean resto, basic big block and Bravo. Keep it a Classic cruiser.

My issue is not that I don’t want a bigger boat, it’s that I live on a smaller lake that really is kind of limited to 23 or 24 foot boat. The Blackhawk I have now is marginal and has long enough legs that it’s almost not practical in my lake.

The issue I have is that the Blackhawk does not have the kinds of things that I would like in a boat, and because it’s an unmolested boat with very low hours, I don’t feel modifying it is smart, but instead build a 22 of the content I do want.

I never said anything about a bigger boat. But if you already have it, then I get it. Making slow boats fast is difficult though. I'd stick to a Bravo XR setup with stock big block power. 22 Classic over 80 or 90 is just bad. Cool boats for cruising. If you're planning on big power and 90 + MPH, Bravo XR sportmaster, add a narrow pad, 6.5" to 7", kplanes and focus on balancing it, with the CG more rearward than stock. And life insurance.

I bought a Chris Craft 23' Scorpion with a 454 and ASD6 drive for $3,600.00. All I wanted was the drive. Its now on a 233 Caravelle with a Audi/VW V6 twin turbo. Still working on computer glitches to make it work but pretty cool project. If you look around and are not in a hurry, the parts you want may come available reasonably priced.

Yes, that’s what I’m after. I understand that there’s other ways to do it in different boats to meet my objectives partially, but I really want a 22 with a surface drive. It would be unique and I’d like to build one. I’m not soliciting ideas on what to build in place of it, just what I need to put that package together.

its knowing what to look for (aka ASD6) that I’m after. Just learning

I don't know much about them, knew nothing before buying one.
They are really simple, most parts that I would consider consumable are just off the shelf stuff.
You will want to look for one with a drop box, ASD6 have helical cut gears that can take a max hp of somewhere around 500 I think. But straight cut gears would solve that.
The hull shape and center of mass have a huge bearing on how well it will work. On a surface drive boat you want some rocker and absolutely no hook.
Do some looking, and if you find a potential drive, ask questions about it specifically.

If that's the case, ya a donor boat with an existing ASD might be economical or a bravo conversion kit. Fun project for sure. You can find some Donzi guys that have done it too for reference, there's a few around.

Bravo Conversion | Arneson Industries

Donzi 22 with ASD 6

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...560b0deb_b.jpg

great suggestion, thank you

For all you doubters, Bjorn in Sweden had a 22 Classic that ran 112 mph without insane power and without any hull mods. A lot of people assumed he had added a pad but I talked with him and he did not! Bravo X drive. HP and prop not disclosed.

^^^ Wow he’s moving! Got it aired out nicely. Wonder what he had for drive and prop. Pretty sure I bought a pair of 3 blade cleavers from him.

To the OP, I can’t offer any input on the arnesons or other surface drives, but I say see how deep the rabbit hole goes!

wasnt there a thread about this boat? The arneson donzi?

while looking i found this video and now of course i have to get one

Doubters of what? I don't believe anyone doubted you could put a ton of HP in this hull and go fast.

Doubters of the capability of this hull, round keel and all. That doesn't look like a ton of hp. A pro-charged 540 and probably under 1,000 hp and a well set up boat. And who needs steps when you're running on the last foot of hull ....

is that video showing a classic 22?

Yes, that was a heavily modified 22’ classic.

so is the thought the 22 can’t go fast or did the driver make a fatal error not catching the instability sooner and finally, couldn’t any boat under 25’ or so do that? I’m asking not telling!

Yes. The one I posted of Bjorn is a stock hull. The one that crashed had a pad added and the bustle. And, yes, the pressure to make a fast run and adrenaline got the best of the driver. He obviously should have backed out of it when it started rocking back and forth.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...39c3f3cd25.jpg

sounds reasonable and logical. Is that the boat? Also, what’s a pad? I assume it’s in back

It's the flat part at the rear of the hull bottom. Ours are round. Yes that's the boat that crashed and it was heavily modified and to use it to infer that a Donzi 22 Classic is inherently unstable at speed is wrong. It clearly did not balance well on the added pad.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...c1b870ff76.jpg

Yes any boat can do that. But there are threads on here and other forums that specifically talk about the 22 being "unpredictable" and "dangerous". This is a drivers boat. Just be careful and know yours and the boats limitations.
This is one of my favorite quotes from one of the threads.

agree and thanks for the added info. I’ve had several 22s including a Blackhawk now and they can be a handful, especially the BH. I don’t allow others to drive it for that reason.

I’m really into Donzis, but curious what would you say is the most stable/easy to drive and rough-water capable boat overall under 24? Cigarette? Other?

I vote Formula 233

Ditto. Formula 233 up to 60 knots for most of us. Donzi X-18 >100 knots for the special few.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...11b8a0614d.jpg

did you mean Formula 233?

The Classics definitely take time to master but driving one is very rewarding after you do so! I also cannot let anyone else drive my boat which is a bummer sometimes because I'd love to ski behind it. I'm not contesting that they are difficult to drive but there are many that run above or close to triple digits and that modified one is the only one I know of that crashed.

Passenger oh sh!t
Driver, you can see the smile even with the helmet

I have also been entrigued with a less than 25 ft hull and a surface drive for the last 20 years! I think about it often... I had a classic 22 with a Bravo and a 600HP BBC...25 yrs ago. It could be a hand full if you werent in flat water...It also was a ton of fun in 1ft chop. I had many rides where I was concerned that I had gone beyond its limits and thought "this isnt the right hull to be running over 80 MPH in"... but at the same time, the boat totally surprised me MANY times in a good way!.... The one thing that I always have to remind myself of when running any boat fast is that no matter how much experience I have, or what "amazing" hull I am driving...the WATER IS THE EQUALIZER. No boat ride is the same twice. You just never know what mother nature has planned 500 FT ahead of you...especially at 100 MPH....its impossible to master the water conditions. I wish you the best in your quest for speed!!! BE safe!