Raylar Stage 2 Kit
 

I’m looking at a new Raylar Stage 2 kit for my 496 HO in my 2007 26 Outlaw. I’ll have it professionally installed. What are others experience with the kit? Reliable? Top quality parts? Performance/HP as advertised?

Not sure I'd go that route. $8k in parts plus assembly and still have a cast crank in the engine?

What route then? 600HP

The best thing they made was the sheet metal intake and they stopped making them.

The nodular crank is good up to 700HP+ they dont become an issue till you do the large supercharge kit. If the cast really makes you nervous (and it shouldnt) they offer forged cranks and also stroker cranks too. The only real weak point is the cast pistons but if you do the full kit, they are replaced.

There are a bunch of us on here that have the 600 and some with the 525. IMHO, the kit is nice, But I opted to weld fittings on the fuel rail to use an aeromotive fuel regulator. I wasnt a fan of the little in-line regulator. Other than that if you have a marine shop do the short block, the 496 only goes together 1 way, you cant mess it up, its stupid proof. The only thing they can screw up is the bore and ring gaps which I think Larry will tell you what they prefer. Then, set the fuel pressure, tune the ecu and go boating.

He can still get them. The reason they became scarce was due to his provider significantly increased cost. When I got mine, it was like $1995. BUT, he can get the same flow out of a modified stock intake anyway. However, as we all know, they are ugly.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...49d7abb44d.png
Above post is spot on.......

I have the Raylar 525 kit minus cnc heads. Very nice parts, cam ground by cam motion.
My setup is turn key reliable. I am running a Whipple Stage 2 tune with base fuel psi @ 47 vs stock 43. Monitoring AF/ R as well.
I agree with Keith, for the stage 2 kit dump the stock pump/regulator. Go 1/2 fuel lines, aero/weldon pump, regulator, return to tank. You will also need your pcm tuned. Whipple has base map tunes for the 600 to get you started.

The stock 8.1 crank is not your GM 80s cast crank. It's a nodular iron and very similar to stock LSX cranks. 600hp is ok.

https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/...r-goodies.html

His original custom welder died in a diving accident I heard. They are making them again with a new fabricator. Larry said a ported stocker with 90mm tb will flow 80% of the coolgap.

Still quite a bit of a heat sink though compared to the cool gap? So close on flow but higher IAT.

I havent spoke to Larry in a couple of years but I thought it was better than that.

Theres more to the story. There were a couple race boats running the Gen 7 and a few other guys that did Dart heads, as well as intake mods. The stock ported intake is ugly but a few guys cut the bottom off, ported it and pulled higher torque numbers than the Raylar intake, then a few other guys fooled with the bigger valve Raylar heads, ported intake and changed the direction of the fuel injectors pointing upstream and pulled some colossal numbers.

I know the old-timers and big 1800 HP engine guys make fun of the Gen 7 platform but it can be a torque monster if you feel like fooling with it. Im not into HP and speed at the moment as my Baja is fast enough but I would really like to do the Raylar 540 crank with a 4.5 bore Dart block with the bigger ported Raylar heads 2.25/1.88 and his intake with dual throttle bodies (just for looks) then his hi performance "race" cam. I assume it would yield around 750HP and reliable.

Another option would be to sell the 496 HO Mag, and for maybe $5-6k more than you were going to spend anyway you could get an entire engine package with accessories making 700 HP. Of course, any way you go, you should consider beefing up your drive

That's the route I went. Bought a low hour 525 take out.

Yeah, about 7 years ago when you did that it was the era of "rebuild the 496" for a lot of people. Ive put the numbers thru a spreadsheet 100 ways. It's relatively the same cost either way. Instant gratification with the 525. Hopefully, it wasnt beat on. Then with the 496 if you have a less than average shop set it up incorrectly you have a ball of crap. But if they do it right, you have power that is new, unmolested. This is a twitchy subject - LOL

At the end of the day, its eight pistons moving up and down.

540 Crate
 

Heard a lot of pros and cons. Appreciate the feedback. So, considering I’d really not have a new or rebuilt short block with the stake 2 route, I’m looking at the 540 crate motor raylar has. From the feedback it looks like a better fount and my installer assured me it was a less expensive route from a labor standpoint.

You are correct and we've bumped heads on this before. I've never regretted switching to the 525 but I wanted a "blue" motor anyway. The 496 can be a good platform and there are plenty of stock ones running procharged. The internals may not be the best but they seem to hold up most of the time.

As you guys have said it's kind of a tough decision when you pencil it out of whether to rebuild your current 496 for more power, or buy a used blue motor. I was in the same boat. I wanted a fresh engine, so I opted to rebuild my 496 with forged pistons/rods etc and add a Whipple. I did all the work myself so it cost me about $13k all-in with a new Whipple, dash gauges, etc. I enjoy the work so that was a benefit to me. As long as it's reliable I think $13k for a fresh 650ish HP engine is a fair price. Time will tell.

This sounds like a solid direction.

dude, I have no idea how guys run them with stock pistons and a procharger. I blew 2 up with modified (stock iron) heads and big cam at 5500rpm. LOL What the heck! I didnt need no procharger to do it either. LOL

Heres a handfull of piston from the oil pan for ya!


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...0de7659980.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...a0698c3557.jpg

Fk yeah, there ya go! For $6500 you can stomp all over it with forged internals. Dude, an idiot could bolt the heads on, the timing chain only goes on one way and the rockers just screw down till they stop. You could put it together with a $40 toolset from Home Depot and a torque wrench.
(not recommending that! just sayin! LOL)

$6500 won't get the boat out of the driveway.

If he can spend the 8k he was going to spend, plus the labor, plus sell the 496 HO for say 6k and add another $6500 he'll have what he needs. 700 reliable and quality HP costs 23k bottom line.

Raylar shortblock is $6500. The 600HO kit is $13K. I have two of them for 7 years and have 250 hours on them. They are pretty much maintenance free fuel injected motors that dyno at about 640HP

Anyone have any experience with these options from ATECO listed in the classifieds? I personally like the turnkey reliability of my 496's and plan to leave them as is, but these upgrades seem like an interesting alternative for those looking to upgrade.

https://www.offshoreonly.com/classif...96-o79136.html

https://www.offshoreonly.com/classif...96-o79135.html

My opinion, but I am a Raylar fanboy...
If he does DART heads maybe...
The 500HP isnt worth it IMHO
The 600HP still think you can get more out of the Raylar. Heres why, the heads. Looks like he is probably running the stock heads with a CNC job on the heads for the 8.1/Gen 7 HP3. (This was a 525 horsepower variant for the 496/8.1) The stock heads are dog crap. I did the CNC program on my stock iron heads 8 years ago. The jackets have about 1/8 or sometimes 1/16 of material left. Then dropped a valve in one and the other cracked.

Raylars package is vanilla, you can get the rockers and port your own intake and get close to his cool gap. The cams are pretty good, the 600HP cam is basically a tad hotter 731 which has proven itself for 20 years. Whats special is the aluminum heads, yes you can do the DART 496 heads in iron, but after you do the valves you would still have to do a little port work to get it close to the Raylar heads and the new Raylar ported heads are off the map good. Reher Morrison designed the heads and did a really good job. 8 years ago when I got mine I took them to 3 well known shops to port them and 2 of the 3 gave them back and said they flow great dont fk with them. The 3rd guy bench ported and flowed them but admittedly couldnt do too much.

No experience with the above packages. I'll buy the 500hp setup but call BS on the 600hp package. GM tried on the Gen 2 HP3 496 and got to about 560hp on Valako ported stock heads with big valves. Ateco does not even mention what intake is being used.

I agree with Keith, stick with Raylar. Proven parts and packages. Great customer service as well. Larry is always a phone call away for customers that buy his parts. Hard to find nowadays.

I agree with going Raylar. Larry's parts are top notch and the support is great. Even when my machinist called him he spent about 45 min on the phone with him.

I am thinking about doing a gradual upgrade on my 496 MagHo with 130 hours. I have been following Ryan00TJ's and Keith's upgrade and they have been very informative. Has anyone upgraded just the iron heads with the Raylar aluminum heads on a 496 MagHO but using the stock factory push rods, rocker arms from the stock heads?
Any idea of the approximate horsepower increase one can potentially gain by going that route?

I've read a few times it being said the heads alone are worth about 65hp on a naturally aspirated engine. Keep in mind though, the real restriction or weak point of a stock 496 is the intake can't flow enough. So, I can't say if you would really get that much gain with just heads.

Sorry to butt in but is Jim Valako still around? He was in Grand Rapids last I talked to him.

I don't believe many have gone just the "heads" route. The stock intake then becomes the restriction. Baby stock cam does not take advantage of the new heads. The smaller cc of the Raylar heads will put you around 10-1 scr.

Old post by Raylar when they were dyno testing their new heads in 04' stated......... 496HO with just our heads and a slight fuel pressure increase made 478HP @4800rpm and 536ft/lbs torque at 3500rpm

Ryan is spot on. If you are going to swap out the heads, you'll need to pull the intake anyway. And at that point, get the intake reworked by Raylar so it's not the weak point anymore.

+1 On Mirage and Ryan

If you drop the coin on the heads you are only $700 away from having the cam and the rockers. Dunno about you but tearing it all down and NOT doing that seems crazy. At that point you are at 525 HP. With the 525HP Raylar cam its basically a hotter HO cam. The intake on the 525 setup doesnt make a huge flow difference. On the 600, more so but a jillion years ago Ray told me it was like a 25 HP difference and I think (I cant remember) but if you just gut the throttle body intake to 90MM you are pretty close to the fully ported stock intake. BUT, I do know its a bicht getting all the grindings out - because I did it.

I did the CNC heads from Crockett in Michigan, raylar 525 cam, raylar rockers and I ported the intake. I have no idea on HP but it was faster.

FWIW, I wanted to do the HP3 cam but the piston to valve clearance was like .030 and i couldnt force myself to do it. I know its possible but with the springs I had I just didnt think it was possible.

So no one makes an aftermarket intake manifold for the 496? That says something ...

At this point the only one actually producing an intake manifold (from scratch) is Whipple as far as I know.

There's no $$ in it for a company to beat a dead horse. Raylar has the Coolgap. Dart makes an aluminum intake with 4150 flange. This covers the carb guys and retrofits to a Holley EFI conversion. Most will run the ported stock intake which can support pretty good hp numbers if a 90-100mm tb adapter is welded onto the intake. I believe Raylar made 580hp with ported stock intake with the 600HO kit.

It's really all about the combination with the 496. Very much why Raylar's packages are designed together. The stock heads suck. Period. You upgrade them and then the stock intake/cam suck. You really need the heads for any real gains.
Take my setup...... It gained some power and runs great. However, I bought the cam, rockers, coolgap for cheap $$. Installed myself. If I would have bought new and paid for install, I would be HIGHLY DISAPPOINTED!!

Post by Ray: Thanks Keith, Ryan and All, I found the 2004 post about the HP increase (heads and flash would be equivalent to an HP500); and I definitely will do the heads and updated rockers as suggested. It seems as if the it's best to reflash my ECU instead of just bumping my fuel pressure by 6 psi . Also, from looking at the upgrades you made to your 496 HO I deduced that the heads are the way to go. Doing the heads will be a DIY project for me; I really don't want to pull my engine to change the cams, which would mean taking it to a shop.

Ray was a hothead and often full of crap and that's no doubt why he left the company years ago.

Since each of us is entitled to our opinion, I honestly and absolutely don't think he was a hot head when it comes to speaking about the development of Raylar's products. He was honest and passionate about the product. It's the reason I am here. Many have had success and I am enquiring. Sorry if you may see it differently.

Yeah, I have to agree. The 496 crowed is the lower budget crowd(not implying you guys are) I think he got murdered with questions and people that didnt buy stuff. I mean there are still people that buy similar stuff off Summit like rockers and such. But, I got along with him good. After buying 2 kits and had questions down the road, he routinely asked how the engines ran and sent me stuff like engine decals and other ideas to try stuff.