Mercury 450R - any issues?
 

Hi!,

At last I have the possibility to order a V8 450R for my ol Phantom 25. The 400R has been a fantastic engine, but this season is the last with warranty.

The 450R has been on the market for a while now. Any issues you know about?

Thanks!


Cheers Toffen

No 450 owners will speak up on this site for fear of Mercury not covering their warranties. Since I don't own any Mercury product under warranty, I can tell you what I'm hearing from multiple sources in the industry, as well as owners of the 450s. They're having a lot of issues with the new 450s - gearcases, propshafts, wiring harnesses, motor mounts, powerhead oil leaks, exhaust can issues in the mid, etc. A buddy of mine that was going to order a pair of 450s from a leading Merc Racing dealer was told to stick with his 400Rs, as they're having nothing but problems with the 450Rs. I'm not trying to say they're all bad, as my buddy out here with a 340X/450R rig has not had problems since he received the boat last Fall, but there's no doubt that a lot of them are having issues. Everybody has jumped on the outboard bandwagon thinking they can just run the things for hundreds of hours with no problems, and that simply isn't turning out to be the case. They're still more reliable and WAY cheaper to own and operate than an inboard boat, but don't expect them to be 100% reliable and trouble-free as everybody seems to think.

185+ hours on mine with no issues.

34' MTI

I'm guessing you're one of the lucky ones Greg. Several 450R propshafts were lost at the MTI Run you just went on, as you know. I lost a shaft on my 400Rs at 40 hours, then put 1-piece shafts in both lowers and they haven't had an issue since, that I know of anyways.

I saw one CC with a lower issue but the case was whacked. I think they hit something.

And one 34 lost a shaft.

I don't know of other issues with 450s or even mechanicals on OB boats. I did hear about some bumper boats at Gilbert's lunch though. :eek:

Other than the CC, a 390 lost one and a 340 lost both. I heard it was a great run though, and glad to hear you guys had good weather for the most part (windy some days).

Have quite a few clients running 450's on both cats and CC's with in excess of 150 hours and none have experienced any issues with them thus far. The couple shaft issues I've heard about were either impact related or possibly operator error ( winging them ).

Is there anyone that has some good amount of hours on them? In the 500-1000 range?

I believe several CCs are at that range. I know for sure the 57 CC w the tower is at like 700 or so. He runs to the Bahamas almost every weekend without a 2nd thought.

My experience...I have about 240 hours on my motors, triple 450R on CC. I've owned the boat for 13 months, motors been down for total of 4-5 months at various times. Mostly due to diagnosing, parts being on backorder etc.

Each of the 3 have had their own issues. complete wiring harness was replaced, the fuel supply module was replaced, boost valves, multiple sensors etc. I've had each motor run into guardian many times (and currently is). Not sure what is up with my motors but, I can't seem to get them settled. Ive been on 4 poker runs (3 of which motors had pretty limiting issues), been offshore (80miles) and lost a motor. I've come to learn that stuff happens but, this is just too much for me.

Expensive hobby and at 65K/motor I don think its worth the performance. I would've gone with more dependable 400R. Saved a bunch of money and had a lot more fun.

We maintain several 450R powered boats. Singles and multi-engines. This includes a charter fishing boat with over 2500 hours on a quad set and no major issues. None of the others (20+) in our care are experiencing any problems.

Skater30: Why don’t you tell us the name of the dealer who is having so many problems with 450s? I’d avoid them like the plague.

I believe the best thing for boat engines is to run them, seems like the ones that always get a lot of hours with no problems are the ones that are used a lot in a somewhat shorter time.

There is a well respected dealer here in Fort Lauderdale that has had a TON of issues with 450's.

Well....if they ran and didnt have problems, they would get used more...lol :party-smiley-004:

Out of sheer curiosity, what is the performance difference between 400's and 450's? Is it just a few mph, or is is 15 or 20 mph?

50 more HP. LOL, you laid that wide open.
Anyways I'd say speed difference is boat dependent.
And they claim the 450's have more torque down low.

Check out the PBC video of Myrick and Rusty running a couple WP cats side by side at LOTO with one having 400’s and the other 450’s.

These heavy users really skew our perception of how many hours we think an engine should last. Corrosion becomes a big factor the older they get.

Hi,

My Phantom 25 runs 88-89 mph with the 400R. With the same type prop (Max5) I expext 95 mph with the 450R. With a CNC 5bl cleaver, maybe a 2-4 mph more. Plus better accelleration :)

I learned back in 2011 when I bought my Verado 350 Sci that its imperative that the rigging of this type of engine is done by the book. If not you can run into all kind of issues.

MVH, Toffen

Rule 1 is that they are all hyper sensitive to good voltage/batteries.

Mine will run in some sort of protection mode that doesn’t trigger an alarm if they are started on low battery voltage. A normal user might have a heck of a time diagnosing that.
*not verados , was making a statement about fuel injected 4s OBs in general

The problems are not due to any dealer maintenance performed, so there's no reason to disclose my sources. I'm not posting on here to hurt anyone, rather the opposite. I think guys should know the truth about what is going on in the industry. Everybody loves to sugar-coat their experience with Mercury Racing, as they're the only game in town, and most are trying to not make waves with Mercury so they will continue covering their claims under warranty. I'm also not saying Mercury doesn't build a great product, as they absolutely do! But there seems to me to be a big misconception that these new 450Rs are a turn-key, ultra-reliable package.

I was having computer issues at startup with my 400Rs for the first season I ran it. I was told by one of my Merc Tech friends to replace the power and ground cables to the motor with larger, 1/0 AWG cables and it solved my problems. Not saying this is the case with your setup, but it was what was causing my 400R issues.

Just another example of 450R issues, I spoke to my tow guy this morning to schedule bringing my 36 back out, and he told me they just had to cancel a tow for a customer of theirs because the boat scheduled for the tow wasn't ready for pickup. It's got low hour 450Rs on it and it's stuck at a shop back east with motor mount issues and either low water or fuel pressure issues. The boat can't leave as scheduled to head out to it's new owner in my home town until it is fixed.

those comments reflect exactly my thoughts... I can't seem to buy the saying
''outboards are more reliable''

They are engines just like the inboards. I don't see why they would be bullet proof.
I always ran my inboards in fresh water and I never, ever, had any engine trouble. beside getting weeds stuck in
the water intake... wich can happen on an outboard too!

of course i get the easier to work on outboard out of the water, but i also like or prefer working on an inboard when in problem in the water!

I run a third battery in my 28 Skater for the stereo so that the voltage drop does not affect the engine batteries. I keep it charged via a 3 bank charger at the dock. If we wear down the battery and lose tunes, it is time to put it back on the lift anyway! The additional weight sucks, but I am not one to attempt to wring every last mph out of it.

I never said it’s a maintenance issue. More of an inexperienced dealer/tech issue and a complete failure to be proactive. We see it with our local dealers often. These products are only as good as the servicing dealer. If they can’t recognize common issues and they fail to provide some preventive measures, they’re either uneducated or lazy. Either way, I’d steer clear of a dealer like that. I’ve been handling Verados since their release in 2004. There are many dealers across the country who didn’t have a single bit of experience with Verados and DTS until the production 350s and 400s were released in 2015.

I just run one. Hours be damned.

We are also talking about the top powered factory race OB there is.

Mount on some 350's or 400's and it really is more reliable low head ache boating. Also a lot of OB boats are used in salt, not fresh only like you are boating in.

One of the reasons I think a 300R powered CAT would be a nice package.
The same can be said of lower power closed cooled I/O's. The things run forever and salt water doesn't matter.

The biggest thing I see beside of course the added room is Mercury and others are shifting all the new engineering to outboards. That means improved designs period.

I mean think about it, I grew up around carbed muscle cars, look what years of engineering has given us now. Who would have thought that in cold snowy weather you could start your current high powered muscle car from the warmth of your house. Hell we were lucky if they would START in the cold.

Rode on 3 of our friends boats multiple times he has had issues with both 400s And 450s, power steering, propshaft, and some others. His close friends have also had multiple issues, neither are on this site. Worst part is waiting on Mercury for warranty and parts. Overall he's happy with them both and they all seem a little more reliable than inboard.

Hi,

Thanks for all this :)

When I bought my 350 Sci back in 2011, I experienced a couple of problems - all related to battery issues. However, now and then the engine decided to go from 600 rpm to 1,500 without me doing anything... Each time I needed to reflash the settings with the computerprogram from Merc. When I sold the engine we discovered corrosion on the adapter plate.... , and we replaced it.

The 400R has been 100% reliable. 485 hours so far. No issues at all. A top notch engine. The only think I miss is accellation as the 400R does not pull as hard as 350 Sci.

This year is the last season with warranty, and for that reason I want to replace it. And ofcourse more speed. Ha ha :)

Cheeers, Toffen

I probably do not have good dealer support here in the gulf coast. However, I do not assume I need to have a "proactive" mercury racing mechanic check my motors each time I take the boat for a run...if that's what you are referring to. I follow the standard manufacturer recommendations for any service to the T. Unfortunately, I seem to have had issues with the motors well before any service is actually required. Diagnosing, Ordering parts, parts being on back order, then installing the parts, and testing the boat etc etc etc. That all takes time...to work on the boat, and away from my chance to enjoy it.

Bottom line, I think the 450's are badass-when they run 100%. The warranty is DEFINITELY needed, and if it was only good for 1 year, I would have sold the boat already. In 13 months, I've had more frustration and bad days of boating because of my "new" mercury racing 450's than I have had good days. Anecdotally, doing 3-4 poker runs this year, the majority of people with 450's have had issues and are frustrated. There are some however, who have NEVER had an issue and have plenty of hours. Consistency and reliability is what outboards are built for. I have consistently NOT had reliable motors. Not sure what my next move is but, it sure is getting old having the motors broken all the dang time.

Maybe poll the crowd: IF I had the option, I would NOT have purchased a trip 450 boat. I would've stuck with 400R.

It is amazing that Mercury is still using 2 piece prop shafts on their high performance outboards. in the mid 80's we raced a 30' Sanger Cat, the first few seasons we ran the 3.4 motors, broke a number of 2 piece prop shafts, the final remedy of that problem was Merc providing us with 1 piece prop shafts, problem solved, worst part of the prop shaft breaks was the prop was lost which was a bigger deal than the shaft. you think they would learn that the 2 piece shafts will break.

Gator, can you clear out your PM, have a question.

i cannot believe the cheerleaders haven't had this thread erased. when i stated in the past that the 450's have issues some of the cheerleaders on oso are now saying the truth in this thread. fact is if you run it, your going to have an issue of some sort along the way. prop shafts and propellers are the big thing in twins and mounting issues show their heads on multi engine installations. one has to see that it's an issue when you see that merc left the main part of the engines stationaly on the 600 as this helps to prevent the failure of the engine mount. theres no free lunch with outboards either. they have gained market share like no other but the cheerleaders can only lie to everyone for so long before the people who were taken in by the deception start to speak the truth. not saying they are the worst thing but far to often oso is the worst place for finding the truth due to the agendas of to many in the business side of things. this used to be a boater site and its turned into a dealer site with everyone pm their sales to members.

The one thing everyone seems to ignore is that a boat is a floating (most of the. time) money vacuum. The bigger and more powerful, the more hundreds it sucks. I have owned and spent God only knows how much money on them. I expect repairs and down time.The only reason I continue to keep boating is that I love it. Yes, people do have boat problems . Some times, it is caused by a defective product. Other times, a boat may not be suited for its use. Some people are just hard on machinery. Boats need regular maintenance and some people don’t take the time for maintenance. That being said, it is frustrating to have expensive new equipment fail. It pisses you off when you get the boat out of the shop and the same thing breaks again. Boaters have be resilient because you will have disappointing days on the water.

I have had boats that are pretty reliable. I have had others that spend more time at the shop than on the water. I don’t think that I will outgrow my passion since I will be 67 next month.

I hope everyone has a good safe boating season because I know that everybody is due some fun.

wise words.



I posted issues with my boat during late summer, as merc had parts on back order during COVID, understandable, I guess. Cheerleaders didn’t shut the thread down....

The boat is a vacuum but, if I was able to actually use the boat reliably whenever I wanted then, I wouldn’t care. As you said you love boating and we all do here. Having premium $ spent on motors should allow premium reliability and response to repairs.

I “hear” the recent motors being released are more reliable, and if so, at what point do lemon laws apply to marine motors. Because if they could just send me 3 new 450s. That my friends, would be great

Like nate said. Merc has the fastest lightest outboards and pushes new technology. And the motors get surfaced a lot on fast boats.

Plenty of Yamaha, Merc and Suzuki 300s out there racking up thousands of hours of normal use.

Don’t own one, but I have a big issue with the 450s... Way too quiet! From what I’ve heard the 400Rs sound better

LOL. You're kidding, right?