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Old 12-15-2002, 12:46 PM
  #191
Ed
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Wink Hull Design Origin's, etc...

For the record...Jean Claude Simon did not design the hulls that went under his deck designs, when in Hollywood, Florida. His "ribbed" deck designs on the 32' & 38' Cobra's, by Performer Boats, manufactured in Ft. Lauderdale & owned by Mr. Bill Wishnick...were placed atop exsisting 24 degree transom deadrise Aronow lineage hulls. Performer designed a second "race" deck shape, which Powerplay Marine started producing in 1988, when they "aquired" the 32' Cobra hull and deck molds. Simularly styled "ribbed"decks were also tooled & used atop another exsisting hull he called a "Coyote" 34RS & 38RS. This hull came from a "one-off" design hull called a "MSV". This tooling was sold to Jay Ross and Sonic Boats was born. Jay built the 34' & 38' just as they came out of the mold, along with an existing 21' funky looking outboard model. He later stretched the 38' deck to fit longer hulls. These hulls were 26 degrees transom deadrise. His warehouse manufacturing was in Ft. Lauderdale, then moved to Pompano for a number of years, then to Hollywood, where it has changed ownership a couple of times. Did/Does Sonic ever race on a national level? On another subject...Does anyone know the history of "Howard Pipkorn"(Hydrostream) & his relationship with Mark Hauptner of Palm Beach Gardens, fame? Another great designer in the Darris Allison era. Who of these bottom guru's, was first to use the pad/step in their boats?
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Old 12-15-2002, 04:33 PM
  #192
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Does anyone know the history of "Howard Pipkorn"(Hydrostream)
I don't know the history, but I do know the future of Hydrostream. Jim Contzen bought the company a few years ago and this year is coming out with a whole new line of boats that just might put them back to the top of their game.
By spring they will have a whole new line including an amazing race boat.
www.hydrostream.com

I don't recall him saying anything about steps though.

Last edited by Tom; 12-15-2002 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 12-15-2002, 06:11 PM
  #193
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Actually Darris Allison is Paul Allison's son..........Paul was the originator of the pad bottom.....I believe....... But! There was an unusual Vee hull, called a "Champ" I believe, that came out in Florida in the mid 60's... The other successful vee hull of that era from Florida was , of course the "Saber".......by a fellow named Critchfield. Both the Champs and Sabers were cut down versions of larger designs.

The first "Stream" I can recall was later......1969 or so. For the record, I owned one of the first pad Allisons......a 16 footer built in 1965. The first pad 13 foot Allison came out the same year. Technically all of the earlier Allisons....which were true flat bottoms...actually rode on a full width "pad"......

As to the Jean Claude Simon statement, you may be right..BUT! The "Beep Beep" had more forward entry deadrise than the Cigarettes...........On the other hand...the earlier Magnum 28's may have been the fore runners of the Cobras. Can't say with any degree of certainty because the hull manufacturers were ripping each other off in overdrive by then.

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Old 12-15-2002, 07:02 PM
  #194
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T2x the Coyote and the Big Cobra’s forefather was a shortened 44’ MSV (Bobby Saccentis race boat La Tortola also the “S” in MSV)
The 32’ cobra has the 29 Cary genes(more Aronow) also same hull as the 31’ Chris craft remember a boat called “Speedy Doris”
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Old 12-15-2002, 08:03 PM
  #195
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cashbrain, what you have is a "Notch", NOT a step. The notch allows the drives to be mounted higher, producing less drag!
 
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Old 12-15-2002, 11:32 PM
  #196
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Originally posted by Too Old
I have nothing of substance to contribute to this thread.

I just wanted to let those involved in this discussion know how much I've enjoyed the lesson.

Thank you.
I concur with Too Old on all three counts.

I also have nothing material to contribute other than my constant questions, have greatly enjoyed the lessons, and Thank You especialy T2x, SteveDavid, Reckless288, buckknekkid, Steve 1, Reindl, and so many others also, for so much information and interesting discussion.

Where are the other manufacturers on the board? I recall Phantom (I really like them) owner used to post. All the money spent on advertising you would think manufacturers would work OSO boards as a form of marketing and participating in the community.

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Old 12-16-2002, 12:09 AM
  #197
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Cashbrain: What shipwrecked said. I'm also assuming if we were looking at your boat from a side view, bow to left, sternt ot he right, we'd see the bottom essentially end towards the right, then go up a couple of inches and continue aft for another 12inches or so? Your actual running surface was the primary bottom before the notch. The "Notch" area is not a running surface per se, but like shipwreck said this allows for a higher X dimension. It also allows for "length as it appears to the sea" without adding drag. This somewhat accomplished what an extension box does and/or based on it's size, enhances the extension box attributes.

Champ boats, now there are some great memories! I had a Vee drive, forward only Champ hull in 1968 which I later traded as down payment on my 1969 Donzi 18'. She had white hull sides, powder blue trim and interior with the number B-57 on the side. It had a 327 CI Chevy with 8 Stromberg 97's and ran about 70 MPH. I believe the builder of Champ was Charles Gagliano?? A couple of them raced in the Inboard Pleasure Craft class (Funny boats was the commmon name for the class as a take off on Funny Cars). George Auriemma raced one (his son is the George Auriemma Jr., who races Offshores in a 27 or 28 Magnum out of the west coast of Florida. The sterndrive models had Volvo drives and handled well and were about 10% faster than a Donzi of the same length. My inboard version didn't turn worth a darn, it would just slide for what seemed forever. Being 14 years old and an absolute maritime genius (NOT) I put two skegs on the bottom like those used on Correct Crafts. Man it turned super until the skegs really grabbed at which point the boat thru me and my maritime genuis rear end out, again and again and again....

You may remember a great Horse Jockey named Billy Hardtack? He owned a Red Champ with a 225 Holman Moody, as did King Carmel, the Insurance "legend" in Miami. A stock 18' foot Donzi with a 225 HP Holman Moody would run 51-54 while the Champ would run close to 60 with identical power. They were probably 1/2 the freeboard of a Donzi, with a wider bottom at midships and a narrower transom, somewhat akin to an hour glass. There was a wide pad on the bottom, probably 18 inches that ran most of the centerline.

Someone mentioned, I think it was Bat boat Tom, a Monza when he was a kid. In Miami, late 60's Monza was built or repped by Ken Elkind. Ken raced a bit with us in the Funny Boats in a 19' or so Monza. The Monza bottom was much akin to the Donzi and other Vees of the day, albeit a bit beamier, with 4 longitudinal strakes, no steps, (most had no pads), no beaks, no transom notch, some with a rounded keel, some with a true V. The departure from this design was both the Champ hull (built in Miami) and Mike Navalonnis S-18 design (built in Fort Lauderdale just north of the FL Airport).

You know in recollecting those days, I realize why I wasn't in school much and thus why I was "disinvited" from such fine Institutions as Pine Crest prep, Mills Academy and Fern Hall. They had a thing about attendance and just didn't quite understand boats and young lads...........

I should have listend to them and Mom, for alas, I am now a Friend to T2x.

Thank you for participating in this thread. The memories are awfully good, and thanks to the folks that turned fiberglass into kids dreams.
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Old 12-16-2002, 08:29 AM
  #198
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Cashbrain, my Super Hawaii has a notched transome. It's nothced all the way out to the outer strake. Looks cool as the strake blends into the notch. The inner strake ends (I'm guessing here) 12' from the transome. No pad, no steps.


Steve, very cool post. We all are enjoying your and T2x's history lesson as well.
Your first boat is a little cooler than mine. Mine ( actually Linda's, but that's why I was dating her) was a 15' trihull with a 50hp Merc. Of course when I got involved we had to upgrade to a 70hp. I still could only slollum(sp) by dropping a ski.
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Old 12-16-2002, 03:20 PM
  #199
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Mark,

Your first boat would have whipped my butt. In 1961 at age 7, I had a wood lapstrake Cruisers Inc. with a 35 Johnson, every bit of 26 mph! Actually it was only 1/2 mine, it was called "Jeff's boat, 1/2 Steves". Jeff is my older brother.......Because we had to pay for our own gas, he didn't use it much. I used it quite alot, but then, I didn't fear siphoning gas out of Dad's Chris Craft like Jeff did

See you soon Mark,

Steve
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Old 12-16-2002, 05:17 PM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve 1
T2x the Coyote and the Big Cobra’s forefather was a shortened 44’ MSV (Bobby Saccentis race boat La Tortola also the “S” in MSV)
The 32’ cobra has the 29 Cary genes(more Aronow) also same hull as the 31’ Chris craft remember a boat called “Speedy Doris”
"Speedy Doris" was the late Dave Albert's National Champion Production hull in 1980........ He later campaigned a similar hull called "Can Do". Both of those boats were Excaliburs...... which later became the Chis Craft Excalibur.........

FYI to you "newbies"........... that same hull was used by Reggie Fountain for the first Excalibur Executioner...........which became the Fountain Executioner..........which became the Fountain 10 meter......

So if we follow the lineage above...... the 44 'MSV (Miller-Saccenti-V-a-r-e-s-e---?).......shrunk down and merged with the 29 Cary (step-child of the Magnum 28).........which begat the Cobra/Coyote.....and the Excalibur....both of which were said to have been "designed" by Jean Claude Simon........ from these came the Sonic.....(out of the Cobra/Coyote).......and the Fountain...(out of the Excalibur/Chris Craft). Consider that Saccenti went on to pioneer the Apache hulls and we clearly see the close relationships (inbreeding?) between many vee hulls on the offshore circuit today.

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