Merc 500R vs 520/XR
08-09-2023, 05:55 PM
#31
Registered
Knot,
There are certainly those out there. But, mostly, what I’ve seen are a bunch of 30 somethings who have discovered a liking of boating and a depth to their credit that makes it all possible. Overwhelmingly, the age of the two demographics shows the older crowd likes loud inboards with real HP, and the younger crowd likes the quiet OBs in double triplicate to make up for a lack in individual HP. What I’ve noticed is that the older crowd seems to have the resources to just let somebody else shoulder the headaches of maintaining their beasts, and the younger crowd is gullible enough to believe maintaining five OBs is easier and cheaper than maintaining two IBs.
All good, though. Just as with the first rule in a gunfight is to have a gun, the first rule in being a boater is HAVING a boat. We have a friend with a pontoon. And while we give him crap for owning a complete waste of mineral resources, we certainly appreciate he brought a place to hang the grill.
Thanks. Brad.
There are certainly those out there. But, mostly, what I’ve seen are a bunch of 30 somethings who have discovered a liking of boating and a depth to their credit that makes it all possible. Overwhelmingly, the age of the two demographics shows the older crowd likes loud inboards with real HP, and the younger crowd likes the quiet OBs in double triplicate to make up for a lack in individual HP. What I’ve noticed is that the older crowd seems to have the resources to just let somebody else shoulder the headaches of maintaining their beasts, and the younger crowd is gullible enough to believe maintaining five OBs is easier and cheaper than maintaining two IBs.
All good, though. Just as with the first rule in a gunfight is to have a gun, the first rule in being a boater is HAVING a boat. We have a friend with a pontoon. And while we give him crap for owning a complete waste of mineral resources, we certainly appreciate he brought a place to hang the grill.
Thanks. Brad.
Most of my crew run 28-35s with twin 300s. The most reliable hp of OBs and enough size to handle the bay plus bring along 10 folks. We really like backing up on sandbars, which would be challenging in an I/O.
08-09-2023, 06:10 PM
#32
Registered
No young people I know personally are running a 5x OB setup. Unless you run in the right crowd in Miami, that is not at all common. Most big multi engine boats are still old guys.
Most of my crew run 28-35s with twin 300s. The most reliable hp of OBs and enough size to handle the bay plus bring along 10 folks. We really like backing up on sandbars, which would be challenging in an I/O.
Most of my crew run 28-35s with twin 300s. The most reliable hp of OBs and enough size to handle the bay plus bring along 10 folks. We really like backing up on sandbars, which would be challenging in an I/O.
I’ll admit, nearly the entirety of my boating is done on either Cumberland or Caesar Creek (an overgrown mud puddle in Ohio). But, from what I’ve seen, the average owner of OB CCs are at least 10-15 yrs younger than the larger IB powerboats. I very often wonder if it isn’t daddy’s boat, they are so young sometimes.
My point is that the majority of the selling points for quad OB CCs are outright myths, offered up to make an upsell. Again, there’s no way you’re going to convince me that maintaining 4-5 OB is easier or cheaper than a couple of big IBs, and the upfront cost leaves plenty of room for maintaining the IBs down the road. There’s also no way they are more efficient. At the end of the day, HP means fuel. Period.
Thanks. Brad.
08-09-2023, 06:56 PM
#33
Registered
Hogie,
I’ll admit, nearly the entirety of my boating is done on either Cumberland or Caesar Creek (an overgrown mud puddle in Ohio). But, from what I’ve seen, the average owner of OB CCs are at least 10-15 yrs younger than the larger IB powerboats. I very often wonder if it isn’t daddy’s boat, they are so young sometimes.
My point is that the majority of the selling points for quad OB CCs are outright myths, offered up to make an upsell. Again, there’s no way you’re going to convince me that maintaining 4-5 OB is easier or cheaper than a couple of big IBs, and the upfront cost leaves plenty of room for maintaining the IBs down the road. There’s also no way they are more efficient. At the end of the day, HP means fuel. Period.
Thanks. Brad.
I’ll admit, nearly the entirety of my boating is done on either Cumberland or Caesar Creek (an overgrown mud puddle in Ohio). But, from what I’ve seen, the average owner of OB CCs are at least 10-15 yrs younger than the larger IB powerboats. I very often wonder if it isn’t daddy’s boat, they are so young sometimes.
My point is that the majority of the selling points for quad OB CCs are outright myths, offered up to make an upsell. Again, there’s no way you’re going to convince me that maintaining 4-5 OB is easier or cheaper than a couple of big IBs, and the upfront cost leaves plenty of room for maintaining the IBs down the road. There’s also no way they are more efficient. At the end of the day, HP means fuel. Period.
Thanks. Brad.
I could flip my 800hr motors for 20k and buy sub 100hr 2023s for 40k. Get that deal done and motors swapped in 3 days. Really getting hard to find someone down here that wants to crawl into a bilge.
I inquired about getting the 330 MPIs in my 330ss converted to closed cooling. The most reasonable $/hr shop down here that I use wanted $6k for the job.
A 496 might give you comparable hours and corrosion resistance as an outboard but those haven’t even been built in a decade?
Last edited by hogie roll; 08-09-2023 at 07:01 PM.
08-09-2023, 09:12 PM
#34
Not to mention Chad that another 450R boat didn't make the event that day because it had an engine that wouldn't run right the night before the event. All told there were 4 modern 4 stroke Merc (400/450) outboard cats that either didn't make the run or didn't make it to the last stop. I'm not bashing on Mercury product, as it powers every boat I currently own and couldn't be happier with it. I'm just stating that you're still going to miss plenty of days of boating due to failures whether you own a high-performance outboard or inboard package. I've owned just about every high-performance outboard and inboard package combination there is and none of them are as reliable as the standard consumer outboard or inboard packages Mercury offers. If you want to go fast, you're going to deal with mechanical issues, period.
Last edited by Skater30; 08-09-2023 at 10:44 PM.
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08-09-2023, 10:22 PM
#35
Registered
agreed… lol funny thing is I was gonna go into that in my post but wanted to keep it short
08-10-2023, 12:04 AM
#36
Registered
This is something I've been thinking about lately. With the price of a Merc 520EFI/XR combo being about $40k and the Merc 500R being about $70k, at what price do you still save money going with outboards? Seeing all the new boats being built with twin outboards on them I've been asking myself this question a lot.
Couple of things-the price you are using for the 520 must be engine only, because the complete package with XR Sportmaster drive and ITS will be over $70K
Sterndrive is rated at the crank, OB is at the propshaft. Those two turns are costly (~8%), so the sterndrive at propshaft will be at a slight disadvantage. Also, sterndrive sound compliance is the boatbuilder’s responsibility, and power will go down if adding enough sound abatement to meet legal levels. OB sound compliance is engine mfg’s responsibility, and the 500R meets US and EU sound levels.
520 turns 5200 RPM, 500R turns 6600 RPM. Average gear ratio for 520 is 1.50:1, all 500R’s are 1.60:1, so very close, but when you couple 6600 with 1.60, you can pull a shorter pitch prop over the larger RPM range, which is why the OB cats appeal, because they pull nicely midrange to top.
520 burns 42 GPH@5200, 500R burns ~55 GPH@6600. This is due to the late burn from late spark for running pump gas with boost. The NA 520 is lean and mean, and actually very green. The low specific output allows this.
520 is 8.6L (60.5 HP/L) and runs on 87 octane , 500R is 4.6L (108.7 HP/L) and runs on 89 octane.
520/XR package has 2 years of warranty, a 65 amp alternator and weighs 1218 lbs dry, so a twin package would weigh 2236 dry.
500R has 3 years of warranty with an option to buy up to 5 more, a 115 amp alternator and the 20” model weighs 720 lbs dry, so a twin package would weigh 1440 dry. Basically 800 lbs difference, so triple 500R’s would still weigh less than twin 520’s. That’s significant.
I’ve spent time with both packages, and they each have performance appeal. The fact that both packages are DTS makes each a pleasure to drive; great throttle response and smooth, effortless shifting. If you’ve never driven a DTS package, you owe it to yourself to try it out.
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08-10-2023, 01:06 AM
#37
Registered
Thread Starter
Couple of things-the price you are using for the 520 must be engine only, because the complete package with XR Sportmaster drive and ITS will be over $70K
Sterndrive is rated at the crank, OB is at the propshaft. Those two turns are costly (~8%), so the sterndrive at propshaft will be at a slight disadvantage. Also, sterndrive sound compliance is the boatbuilder’s responsibility, and power will go down if adding enough sound abatement to meet legal levels. OB sound compliance is engine mfg’s responsibility, and the 500R meets US and EU sound levels.
520 turns 5200 RPM, 500R turns 6600 RPM. Average gear ratio for 520 is 1.50:1, all 500R’s are 1.60:1, so very close, but when you couple 6600 with 1.60, you can pull a shorter pitch prop over the larger RPM range, which is why the OB cats appeal, because they pull nicely midrange to top.
520 burns 42 GPH@5200, 500R burns ~55 GPH@6600. This is due to the late burn from late spark for running pump gas with boost. The NA 520 is lean and mean, and actually very green. The low specific output allows this.
520 is 8.6L (60.5 HP/L) and runs on 87 octane , 500R is 4.6L (108.7 HP/L) and runs on 89 octane.
520/XR package has 2 years of warranty, a 65 amp alternator and weighs 1218 lbs dry, so a twin package would weigh 2236 dry.
500R has 3 years of warranty with an option to buy up to 5 more, a 115 amp alternator and the 20” model weighs 720 lbs dry, so a twin package would weigh 1440 dry. Basically 800 lbs difference, so triple 500R’s would still weigh less than twin 520’s. That’s significant.
I’ve spent time with both packages, and they each have performance appeal. The fact that both packages are DTS makes each a pleasure to drive; great throttle response and smooth, effortless shifting. If you’ve never driven a DTS package, you owe it to yourself to try it out.
Sterndrive is rated at the crank, OB is at the propshaft. Those two turns are costly (~8%), so the sterndrive at propshaft will be at a slight disadvantage. Also, sterndrive sound compliance is the boatbuilder’s responsibility, and power will go down if adding enough sound abatement to meet legal levels. OB sound compliance is engine mfg’s responsibility, and the 500R meets US and EU sound levels.
520 turns 5200 RPM, 500R turns 6600 RPM. Average gear ratio for 520 is 1.50:1, all 500R’s are 1.60:1, so very close, but when you couple 6600 with 1.60, you can pull a shorter pitch prop over the larger RPM range, which is why the OB cats appeal, because they pull nicely midrange to top.
520 burns 42 GPH@5200, 500R burns ~55 GPH@6600. This is due to the late burn from late spark for running pump gas with boost. The NA 520 is lean and mean, and actually very green. The low specific output allows this.
520 is 8.6L (60.5 HP/L) and runs on 87 octane , 500R is 4.6L (108.7 HP/L) and runs on 89 octane.
520/XR package has 2 years of warranty, a 65 amp alternator and weighs 1218 lbs dry, so a twin package would weigh 2236 dry.
500R has 3 years of warranty with an option to buy up to 5 more, a 115 amp alternator and the 20” model weighs 720 lbs dry, so a twin package would weigh 1440 dry. Basically 800 lbs difference, so triple 500R’s would still weigh less than twin 520’s. That’s significant.
I’ve spent time with both packages, and they each have performance appeal. The fact that both packages are DTS makes each a pleasure to drive; great throttle response and smooth, effortless shifting. If you’ve never driven a DTS package, you owe it to yourself to try it out.
Last edited by Plowtownmissile; 08-10-2023 at 01:28 AM.
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08-10-2023, 05:55 AM
#39
VIP Member
VIP Member
is, and when it has a catastrophic failure, you don’t loose an expensive, uncommon prop
