What’s inherently unsafe on them? It’s been proven the common denominator was a lack of experience/training with the speed/capability of the old Bo’s. Kinda like the crypto guys all crashing their SR22s I guess. At least they have CAPS 😊

Does flying an SR22T and driving a modern outboard cat put you in a different risk pool?

Seriously - super bummer and sad for this or any pleasure boat accident. Be safe out there guys.

SJP

Couldn`t disagree more.
It is ABSOLUTELY the hull/boat.
Not a single 3600 Supercat has ever blown over.
Weight, design, tunnel width and compression ratio all play a big role to say otherwise is not correct.
390X is the most blown over cat ever. The owner had a 36 Spectre, 36NT, and 36 DW previously and no issues and plenty of cat experience.
Using your logic all Nortech drivers are excellent and all 390X drivers are bad.
Certainly not the case.

Correction on my previous statement the five 390X blowovers I`m aware of only this one had fatalities.

I don`t agree that this is not the time to discuss this.
I`m sure MTI would disagree however.

Concur

Gregg Rosen, the owner of Aqua Mania was killed in a 39 MTI too. He has owned some of the fastest boats in the world and was very experienced. So yeah, I would agree that the 39 MTI has bitten some very experienced boaters. One incident could be chalked up to bad luck, etc…, but when it’s happened to multiple guys with a lot of experience, I think the 39 MTI needs to really be looked at as the common denominator in these situations.

I think a quick fix is insurance companies black list them, banks stop financing them, and they will go away.

I would think that a past owner of cats with experience in them would recognize the reason these potato chips fly so fast as Dan said.

Being up the river here all week and witnessing the gusts out of no where I can tell you it was a factor unless a big wake got a hold of them while trimmed hi.

I’ve flown parasails off this west coast region commercially for 20 years and east winds are notoriously gusty. Some days worst than others .

My experience when you get a big gust there is a vacuum that is momentarily right before it hits, I’ve seen it trying to land parasails in high gusts conditions and it will try to collapse the sail. When that is going on I call it a day .

It May be a great boat designed to pack air safely at 100-120 but what happens when a 40 mph gusts makes that a 140-160 mph pack ?

A Lifeline probably saved my life in a cat accident...

Maybe that is the problem. Right there.

If we go back to the sports car analogy, you want your car to tell you when it is on the verge of letting go. Not just send the rear axle in front of the front axle without notice.

Experienced cat drivers have been killed in the MTI 390X. Maybe because they expected the signals that they were used to getting in other cats.

That may be a very good point. I have rode motorcycles my whole life. We always like sport tires that would slide before they let go, even when there were others that would grip better.

You needed to feel when the bike was sliding and then work with it, a sudden loss of traction always meant you were going to feel some pain.

Fair perspective, and I get where you are coming from. There are cues to everything. In my racecar, our class recently switched tire manufacturers. We went from Toyo to Hoosier.
With the Toyos, they started to slip, and you knew where the limit was.
With the new Hoosiers, they hold, hold, hold, hold, and then BAM they are gone and you find yourself 'agricultural racing.'

It's important to remember that boats don't wreck boats.
Captains wreck boats.

100%
Because the 390X has a wide tunnel and high compression it gives a false sense of security, it goes over everything and feels smooth because of the lift... until it doesnt, and then it`s too late.
Wind was definitely a factor.

So that`s 6 that I`m aware of 3 fatalities.:(
I have heard that the 390X is very hard to insure and most self insure, not sure if that is true but while I was looking for 36 NT insurance , there was one well known insurer that stopped covering them due to having to pay out for the quad motor that sank. That was just one boat and they said no more insuring Nortechs.
Agree that they need to go away.
At this point I would think there would be enough for a class action lawsuit.

Exactly.

Think what that is like on two wheels,,,,

just a question as I am not an outboard guy but is it common for the engines to rip off the mounts that easily. one I could see but both engines look like they failed at the pivot area. is it possible that the mount failed or started to fail causing a trim issue? just asking as I know these new outboards are very heavy and they dont seem to hang on by much. not saying or speculating, just curious

Not common for outboard engines to rip off the mounts.

Tough to know how many have gone over, MTI must spend a lot to bury the stories and pictures off of the internet.

How much of it is us?

Do we run our boats to the “edge” w/passengers on board??

Most I know, do.

We are all experienced enough to know what/where the edge is, and that is different for every boat, conditions, load, driver ability etc and it changes constantly and in front of our eyes!

Like no other motor sport/hobby.

So if we’re making a pass, on the edge, and anything changes, then what?

If were smart we plan/allow for that variable correct?

No one wants to ride in our boats at part throttle.

They get in our boats cuz the know they’re the latest, greatest, fastest.

Think they want or would be satisfied w/a 60 mph ride?

Going out and killing ourselves is one thing but killing them??

A good friend of mine sold a 300X powered 19’, 120 mph tunnel boat a while back.

A month later the man showed up at his door to charge him for expenses incurred for the removal of his destroyed boat who’s owner never transferred the title and died in the wreck!

So IMO, it’s our fault.

Its always our fault.

Home made 50 mph boat or 10 million$ 150 mph cat, what makes the difference?

There is a video. I don't have it.

Everyone's obsessed with top speeds these days. Manufacturers are all about those bragging rights, so they're cranking out boats with ever-wider tunnels to cram in more air for crazy lift and compression—meaning less hull in the water—while keeping things super light for killer power-to-weight ratios. Mercury keeps pumping out ever more powerful outboards. Toss in those Motec kits that slap on another 150+ horsepower, and boom: a perfect storm waiting to happen. I

Not a huge fan of STUUUU, but credit where it's due—maybe he spotted the writing on the wall and jumped ship.

Meanwhile, online, the slower cats like DCB, Mystic, and the newest quad from Nortech catch endless heat for not matching the top speed craze of MTIs and the like.
Nortech, Mystic DCB aim to make a safe catamaran instead of the outright speed demon ...I say that's the way to go. I'd take arriving last over not arriving at all but most guys have way too much ego so here we are.
I would be very surprised if the 4000 Nortech blew over. They didn`t make a cat for years because they wanted to build a safe one. MTI isn`t on the same page

Lots of these mfg make fast and safe boats. None of them are safe if operated in an unsafe manner.

People buying these boats are racers at heart, and racers have egos. Speed is a drug and we all can't get enough. Its performance boating. We know the risks and we make the choice to take a measured amount of risk for the thrill. Some people exercise restraint, some don't, and even those that make good decisions most of the time sometimes make an isolated poor decision that has consequences. Running hard 125+ into unfavorable weather conditions and the way it crossed the other boat's wake when it went over is something that could be considered risky....amongst other things.

Pushing these limits with passengers onboard is another discussion.

Very happy to hear that Neal has made a positive turn and was able to be operated on. Please continue to keep him and all affected in your thoughts and prayers.

Joe

Joe, thank you for keeping us updated.

we are flying a wing in ground effect without any aero control devices with the center of gravity off the charts to far back

I was talking to a pilot that was a performance boater once and he said he prefers his wings to have control surfaces.

Either way, is it known yet what really happened? Did it blow over or stuff a sponson or?

.........

it has always amazed me that some great running hulls never catch on because they are a few MPH slower and that may only be on the top end. getting there first does not always mean your having the most fun.

The likely COA would be the insurance companies decide not to insure any go-fast hull vs just a specific CAT model/brand.

Most folks don't know what ground effect is.

Even computer controlled control surfaces would be dangerous whem on the ragged edge in gusty conditions. Over correction would cause an accident. Difficult to know how much when going that fast.

14 years later yet the laws of aerodynamics remain the same.....

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...e8453432de.png

The F-16 Fighters are "fly by wire" and would be impossible for a human to control manually. They have a CG too far aft to be inherently stable but computers can keep them in the air. So it's possible but at what cost?

I’m telling you guys it was the wind gusts out of No Where that got him . They were like mini tornadoes.

Did the accident happen in a 25mph speed limit area?

May sound stupid but what about a pressure transducer giving constant feedback on tunnel pressure.
I know nobody could react quick enough to stop it but maybe you could see tunnel pressure changes as wind gusts hit as conditions are worsening?
As it is now its really hard to tell wind speed and direction when you're traveling 80+

It took decades for the Unlimiteds to
start running them.

The issue has always been the delay from need to activation.

Recent videos show them in action but not sure of their control.

pretty sure they control those manually with their feet?

Many moons ago I was affiliated with a 7 litre inboard hydro. The hull had what was nicknamed "the toilet". The boat would run around 140 down the straights, as the driver entered the turn he had a pedal that opened a door we'll call it in the sponson(s) which filled it with water to weight the front of the hull down. Come out of the turn, get on the gas, and as the boat felt more comfortable the driver would open another door that would dump all the water, or if it did not feel comfortable he would keep some of it in the sponsons. This was of course a wash, rinse, repeat deal so to speak on a race course. Perhaps a lot different in open water running around? Always thought that was a great idea. Many of the other boats in the class through the years blew over, this one never did.

Thanks for keeping to what's important in this thread Joe, the people involved in this accident. I've been hearing from friends that though Kirby is pretty beat up, he's going to be ok in the long term. The severe saltwater ingestion in his lungs is what I've heard he's having the most difficulty recovery from, but that he is steadily getting better. All these keyboard warriors on here are why I started the thread I posted immediately after my old 30 Prototype went over with the new owner and took Nancy's life - if you don't stop this stuff before it starts, it just goes on and on. It also reminds me of the dogpile that jumped on my original accident in my 30 Prototype back in 2006 - it seems as though some things never change.........

Joe,

Yup. Two pedals. One for the throttle, one for the canard.

Thanks. Brad.

BoostBros,

Yup. Literally, just relying on air dump to regulate tunnel pressure at that critical point between loft and lift.

Thanks. Brad.

Pretty sure they started w/sensors mounted to the hull that sent signals to a computer.

Troubke w/that is, it can’t read the water in front of you to set the hull up for it, as we humans can.

I looked at the still shots of accident scene and surface of water is clearly wind blown.

Water looks choppy too but as I have learned first hand, it’s impossible to judge wave action from pixs or video.

We are getting seriously derailed here, but just like a Rolls Royce can read the road surface in front of it and adjust the suspension, the technology is available to read the water surface.