Cigarette Planning To Unveil New Model In Miami
#43
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Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,249
Likes: 420
From: BC
Kevlar was widely used over 40 years ago. Carbon has limited benefits where it matters.
Things have gotten out of hand.
Cig could prob reduce their costs by 30% if they went with 50% less Cig logos on the boat.
Compare the prices of downhill mountain bikes vs Motocross Bikes. Similar WTF factors.
#44
Dan, i am by no means defending the prices of current boats with this post cause lord knows new boat pricing is crazy!...but you should know better than anyone that the price of something is what the market will bear. We all know a new Cig doesn't cost them anywhere near $500k but people are willing to pay it so why not take advantage of it while they can? But there are a lot of costs we, that are not in the field, don't know about. For instance the resin we use here at work costs us about $1900 for a 55gal drum and that's not including the shipping and hazard fees. then you need the hardener...more cost/hazard fees etc...
Yes once the mold is done its basically labor and materials...but, what did it cost to get to the point of having a mold? Its not a weekend job to construct a plug...even if its done on a large scale CNC. Then the mold pulled off that plug has a life span depending on well built it is....it may be good for a few hundred pulls then it may need to be either refurbished, which it wont be like the original, or a whole new mold will have to be made and that's assuming they kept the original plug around just in-case.
Then there's the materials, fiberglass, kevlar, carbon, Core materials, stringers, screws, nuts, bolts etc...
I actually just priced some 2x2 twill 3K carbon fiber for a small project im thinking of doing...depending on where you get it from they are averaging like $50/yd from reputable stores (im not talking about places like Temu or Aliexpress)
So a 38' boat would need about 13yds for one side (assuming the full 50 wide roll would cover it) and lets just make it simple and say the layup is 3 layers of carbon then a core material and another 3 layers of carbon. So you have 78yds on one side of the boat times two for the other side and your at 156yds/$50yd = $7800 and you haven't even gotten to the bottom of the boat yet. Again i don't know how they layup specific boats but i have heard the old Apache's had a solid bottom that was around 3/4" thick. If you layered that same 38' boat in this 2x2 carbon that has a thickness of .012" you would need 62 layers of it!! (assuming its vacuum bagged) So the boat needs 13yds for its length...now has 62 layers of this in the bottom for one half...times 2 for the other side you suddenly have 1612 yds @ $50yd and your spending $80,000 for the bottom!!
I have no clue how much labor goes into building a boat from scratch, but i did know a guy that built flats boats down in FL and they took about 6 weeks from start on the day you gave a deposit to the day you picked it up assuming all parts are in stock and there's no delays in any other part delivery's on a 22' boat
You all ready have an idea on how much a quality paint job costs....assuming they do it in-house it will save some money, if not then they are paying and then up-charging for that service too.
Stereo systems....all depends on how fancy you want to get. I'm sure no up-scale manufacturer is going to install Audiovox or a Boss Wallmart systems in their boats....and if its made for "Marine" use then the price just tripled!
Engines and drives....Unless you are specifically asking for a custom built motor to be installed then there's not many options for factory power/drives that come with a warranty. So again Mercruiser will take advantage of the market and ask for every penny they can get out of the consumer.
Yes once the mold is done its basically labor and materials...but, what did it cost to get to the point of having a mold? Its not a weekend job to construct a plug...even if its done on a large scale CNC. Then the mold pulled off that plug has a life span depending on well built it is....it may be good for a few hundred pulls then it may need to be either refurbished, which it wont be like the original, or a whole new mold will have to be made and that's assuming they kept the original plug around just in-case.
Then there's the materials, fiberglass, kevlar, carbon, Core materials, stringers, screws, nuts, bolts etc...
I actually just priced some 2x2 twill 3K carbon fiber for a small project im thinking of doing...depending on where you get it from they are averaging like $50/yd from reputable stores (im not talking about places like Temu or Aliexpress)
So a 38' boat would need about 13yds for one side (assuming the full 50 wide roll would cover it) and lets just make it simple and say the layup is 3 layers of carbon then a core material and another 3 layers of carbon. So you have 78yds on one side of the boat times two for the other side and your at 156yds/$50yd = $7800 and you haven't even gotten to the bottom of the boat yet. Again i don't know how they layup specific boats but i have heard the old Apache's had a solid bottom that was around 3/4" thick. If you layered that same 38' boat in this 2x2 carbon that has a thickness of .012" you would need 62 layers of it!! (assuming its vacuum bagged) So the boat needs 13yds for its length...now has 62 layers of this in the bottom for one half...times 2 for the other side you suddenly have 1612 yds @ $50yd and your spending $80,000 for the bottom!!
I have no clue how much labor goes into building a boat from scratch, but i did know a guy that built flats boats down in FL and they took about 6 weeks from start on the day you gave a deposit to the day you picked it up assuming all parts are in stock and there's no delays in any other part delivery's on a 22' boat
You all ready have an idea on how much a quality paint job costs....assuming they do it in-house it will save some money, if not then they are paying and then up-charging for that service too.
Stereo systems....all depends on how fancy you want to get. I'm sure no up-scale manufacturer is going to install Audiovox or a Boss Wallmart systems in their boats....and if its made for "Marine" use then the price just tripled!

Engines and drives....Unless you are specifically asking for a custom built motor to be installed then there's not many options for factory power/drives that come with a warranty. So again Mercruiser will take advantage of the market and ask for every penny they can get out of the consumer.
__________________
-Wally
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy horsepower. And I've never seen a sad person hauling a$$!
-Wally
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy horsepower. And I've never seen a sad person hauling a$$!
#45
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 345
Likes: 169
From: Lake St. Louis, MO / LOTO
The prices are ridiculous as we all know. I know materials have went up in price but like others have said, it's old technology with very little engineering being put into these boats. Comparing to the automotive industry... boats do not have suspension, air conditioning, heat, power windows, transmissions, heated seats, air bags.....
I am a Capitalist though and if they're selling them, why not charge a premium!
I am a Capitalist though and if they're selling them, why not charge a premium!
#46
VP of the tickfaw200

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,126
Likes: 185
From: baton rouge, louisiana
would love a new bare bones boat. all gauges no screens other than gps. normal marine vinyl ext. kind of built that my bullet that way. just simple and functional. problem with that is no one wants that now days. it all has to be over the top.
#47
Im sure if you went in there and wanted a bare bones race boat they would do it.....but dont expect for the upgrades to get it to the typical standards to be cheap after that.
__________________
-Wally
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy horsepower. And I've never seen a sad person hauling a$$!
-Wally
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy horsepower. And I've never seen a sad person hauling a$$!
#48
Registered


Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,249
Likes: 420
From: BC
The prices are ridiculous as we all know. I know materials have went up in price but like others have said, it's old technology with very little engineering being put into these boats. Comparing to the automotive industry... boats do not have suspension, air conditioning, heat, power windows, transmissions, heated seats, air bags.....
I am a Capitalist though and if they're selling them, why not charge a premium!
I am a Capitalist though and if they're selling them, why not charge a premium!
Volume production through innovation...reducing total price, reaching far more customers, is also a capitalist concept.
#50
When it comes to RVs, remember there are a lot more options for floor planning by dealers.
And when it comes to financing them, you can go pretty far out as they qualifies as a second home. You could do the same with many Boats, but you’re not going to do it with an outboard cat.
FWIW:
For these big ticket items, manufacturers typically go with MSRP as such:
1/3 1/3 1/3 rule.
1/3 cost
1/3 profit
1/3 that you get to play with your dealers, discounting, holdbacks, service, factory reps, etc.
And when it comes to financing them, you can go pretty far out as they qualifies as a second home. You could do the same with many Boats, but you’re not going to do it with an outboard cat.
FWIW:
For these big ticket items, manufacturers typically go with MSRP as such:
1/3 1/3 1/3 rule.
1/3 cost
1/3 profit
1/3 that you get to play with your dealers, discounting, holdbacks, service, factory reps, etc.





