Vortec engines in APBA OFFSHORE IN F-1 AND IN F-2 CLASSES WHAT DO YOU THINK??
12-18-2002, 08:37 PM
#21
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From the testing that I have done there is a 3-4 MPH differance between the 500's and the 525's Mid range is also better.Acceleration is great also on the 525's feel better then the 500's....
The wieght differance between the two (250Lbs for a single) should equilize the two.My question is if you have to add the wieght to slow you down then why not stay with the 500's? What are you gaining by putting a higher horse power engine and then adding wieght?Sounds like alot of money and time for nothing!!!
Frank
The wieght differance between the two (250Lbs for a single) should equilize the two.My question is if you have to add the wieght to slow you down then why not stay with the 500's? What are you gaining by putting a higher horse power engine and then adding wieght?Sounds like alot of money and time for nothing!!!
Frank
12-18-2002, 08:45 PM
#22
Geronimo36
Gold Member
Originally posted by xtremeracingf1
I dont think Merc is will to do anything at this point.The amount of engines that would be used in APBA is such a small number it wouldnt make scence for them.If the Vortecs were used in F!,F2 you are talking 45 engines,I dont think that is the market they are after.They will probable take a back set this year and then make a bussiness decission from there.They can pull the plug any time by not suppling Gmc with outdrives.No one has mentioned they are screw without the outdrives.Volvo tried it and feel on there face with the DPX600 that Inovation built for them.Cost them Millions to learn a serious lesson about the High Performance Market.
Mercury is so involved in the OEM market with boat builder that this isnt even a thought to them.Some of the larger OME builds use that many engines in a week....
Dont get me wrong what Vortec is doing is great for the races.The only reason they are doing it is because they are not Mercury and they have to.Mercury is after the consumer bussiness,that where they're marking dollars go.They are looking at a much bigger picture,it would be years before Vortec could even be seroius about being any kind of threat to Merc.
I dont think Merc is will to do anything at this point.The amount of engines that would be used in APBA is such a small number it wouldnt make scence for them.If the Vortecs were used in F!,F2 you are talking 45 engines,I dont think that is the market they are after.They will probable take a back set this year and then make a bussiness decission from there.They can pull the plug any time by not suppling Gmc with outdrives.No one has mentioned they are screw without the outdrives.Volvo tried it and feel on there face with the DPX600 that Inovation built for them.Cost them Millions to learn a serious lesson about the High Performance Market.
Mercury is so involved in the OEM market with boat builder that this isnt even a thought to them.Some of the larger OME builds use that many engines in a week....
Dont get me wrong what Vortec is doing is great for the races.The only reason they are doing it is because they are not Mercury and they have to.Mercury is after the consumer bussiness,that where they're marking dollars go.They are looking at a much bigger picture,it would be years before Vortec could even be seroius about being any kind of threat to Merc.
This is exactly why Merc is clearly a Monopoly!! They have absolute market share, and can control the sport. Even though I like Merc. products, I think it is high time that the Sport gain control over the market.
I think that the Vortech motor would be excellent. After all GM did design that 502 anyway. Who has the rights to the BBC now? Does GM high perf. still manufacture the blocks? Maybe GM can put their foot down and not sell any new long blocks to Merc?
12-18-2002, 08:55 PM
#23
Chevy-Harley fan
Charter Member
Corvette Fever had a write up this month "Crate Engines The Lastest Crop" Marine testing helps make crate engines so tough. It said as a result numerous engines that were originally developed for marine applcations have turned up as crate engines in the Performance Parts catalog. They covered the HP3, a 6.0 marine engine, and also said that the engineers at Powertrain are also experimentting with a supercharged version of the 6.0 engine. They said one of the most compelling aspects of the Vortech marine engines is their durability. Before an engine is released for production, the combination must pass a 300-hour, wide-open-thottle durability test. I think the new GM Performance Catalog is coming out in a few weeks so lets wait and see whats in it. (also heard they were going to offer a 572ci crate motor) I would like to here from Steve Miklos or Gordo but I don't think they had any motor problems in their Super Vee Lite boats this year. And I'm sure that the rec. boater could unleash alot more power out of some of these crate motors with some aftermarket parts on the market. I know the Corvette guys are doing it. Competition keeps everyone honest so it sounds like it can only be a good thing. I'm sure RonP already has the inside scoop. What a dream job Ron, couldn't happen to a nicer guy, GOOD LUCK!
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Pete
12-18-2002, 09:17 PM
#24
Chevy-Harley fan
Charter Member
Originally posted by Panther
After all GM did design that 502 anyway. Who has the rights to the BBC now? Does GM high perf. still manufacture the blocks? Maybe GM can put their foot down and not sell any new long blocks to Merc?
After all GM did design that 502 anyway. Who has the rights to the BBC now? Does GM high perf. still manufacture the blocks? Maybe GM can put their foot down and not sell any new long blocks to Merc?
It's hard to say what GM still makes anymore. the 502HO motor uses Edelbrock heads even though they use gm part #'s on them. Merc could use someone elses aftermarket blocks if they had too. I think what would really scare Merc is if GM teamed up with someone elses outdrive.
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12-19-2002, 01:42 AM
#26
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i think we should just have 525's merc or vortec and #6SM's...over the season this would be less cost to the racer! just change to oil once a season and finish every race w/o mecanical complications.
12-19-2002, 02:13 AM
#27
Registered
OK BOY'S,
FOR A WHILE YOU GOT ON MY ASS NOW HOW ABOUT I GET ON YOUR ASSES. YOU ARE SPEAKING ABOUT SOMTHING YOU KNOW NOTHING OF IN A PUBLIC FORUM ( NOT RACERS ROUND UP ) AND DESTROYING THINGS THAT ARN'T EVEN ALIVE YET.
FACTS,
VORTEC LEASE PROGRAM WILL BE NO CHEAPER THEN IT IS TO BUY A FULL PACKAGE FROM MERC. WHEN THEY PUBLISH IT DO THE MATH. MERC HAS ALLWAYS AND STILL IS WILLING TO WORK WITH ANY RACER WHO APROACHES THEM. IF YOU APROACH THEM LIKE THEY OWE YOU SOMTHING THEN YOU GET NOTHING. IF YOU APRACH THEM LIKE THEY HAVE SOMTHING TO GAIN FROM YOU THEN THEY WILL. REMEMBER MERCURY HAS DONE A LOT FOR RACING. AS WE MAY NOT SEE THE FULL EFFECT ON THE LOWER CLASSES THEY DO DO THINGS FOR PEOPLE. IT TAKES TIME, COMMITMENT, AND A GOOD ATTITUDE. RANDY. YOU HAVE EARNED YOUR STRIPES AND SHOWED COMMITMENT, CALL THEM. YOU MAY BE SUPRISED. AND NOW WITH GM IN THE PICTURE THEY WILL BE MORE LIKLEY TO TRY HARDER. REMEMBER THEY OWE YOU NOTHING. BE NICE IT TAKES TIME PEOPLE.
TREADWELL
FOR A WHILE YOU GOT ON MY ASS NOW HOW ABOUT I GET ON YOUR ASSES. YOU ARE SPEAKING ABOUT SOMTHING YOU KNOW NOTHING OF IN A PUBLIC FORUM ( NOT RACERS ROUND UP ) AND DESTROYING THINGS THAT ARN'T EVEN ALIVE YET.
FACTS,
VORTEC LEASE PROGRAM WILL BE NO CHEAPER THEN IT IS TO BUY A FULL PACKAGE FROM MERC. WHEN THEY PUBLISH IT DO THE MATH. MERC HAS ALLWAYS AND STILL IS WILLING TO WORK WITH ANY RACER WHO APROACHES THEM. IF YOU APROACH THEM LIKE THEY OWE YOU SOMTHING THEN YOU GET NOTHING. IF YOU APRACH THEM LIKE THEY HAVE SOMTHING TO GAIN FROM YOU THEN THEY WILL. REMEMBER MERCURY HAS DONE A LOT FOR RACING. AS WE MAY NOT SEE THE FULL EFFECT ON THE LOWER CLASSES THEY DO DO THINGS FOR PEOPLE. IT TAKES TIME, COMMITMENT, AND A GOOD ATTITUDE. RANDY. YOU HAVE EARNED YOUR STRIPES AND SHOWED COMMITMENT, CALL THEM. YOU MAY BE SUPRISED. AND NOW WITH GM IN THE PICTURE THEY WILL BE MORE LIKLEY TO TRY HARDER. REMEMBER THEY OWE YOU NOTHING. BE NICE IT TAKES TIME PEOPLE.
TREADWELL
12-19-2002, 09:42 AM
#29
Charter Member #94
Charter Member
While ET's literary composition skills may be somewhat lacking, 
he does make a good point. Things don't get better by whining. I don't think anyone can argue that Mercury has done great things for offshore racing. On the other hand, I feel there are some things Mercury needs to recognize. In the past, (late 90's), I have paid more for parts, (if they had them) off the Mercury truck than I would pay in any local dealership. I also have argued that we race team owners pay the same price for the HP500 package as does the average owner, yet we get no warranty of any kind so we get the short end again. These are facts, not opinions. Another fact is, Mercury really had no competition to worry about.
This year, we raced with the GM Vortec package. Its performance was flawless. Three times we didn't finish a race. Once due to breaking an Imco drive input shaft, the other two were overheating due to a water hose in the transom being damaged which shut off cooling water to the engine. Both times the engine went into a protect mode which shut us down to a fast idle. Both times the engine was undamaged. The GM Vortec guys were always there when we needed them. And at the races, what was theirs was ours.
Here's the interesting part. This last season we had a number of occasions to buy stuff from the Mercury truck. They had everything we needed, were fair on price, and offered help and suggestions that were certainly appreciated. We went to Lake X where I learned some new ideas to better our equipment. In fact, at the worlds in Key west, the Mercury guys bent over backwards for us. They fixed a broken drive while we waited, loaned me a couple of special tools so we could make other repairs correctly, even came over to our pits to see how things were going and lend a hand. Nobody can ask for more than that.
So, did things get better because there's a new name at the dock? Maybe. A little competition never hurts. I only hope that GM Vortec doesn't boost the price of their lease program too much. If the GM Vortec prices stay within easy reach, maybe Mercury will follow suit.
APBA offshore racing is moving forward and heading the right direction. There certainly things we would all like to see happen, but look at the changes we've seen just in the last couple of years. Things could always get better, but we need to approach these matters as the professionals that we are.
he does make a good point. Things don't get better by whining. I don't think anyone can argue that Mercury has done great things for offshore racing. On the other hand, I feel there are some things Mercury needs to recognize. In the past, (late 90's), I have paid more for parts, (if they had them) off the Mercury truck than I would pay in any local dealership. I also have argued that we race team owners pay the same price for the HP500 package as does the average owner, yet we get no warranty of any kind so we get the short end again. These are facts, not opinions. Another fact is, Mercury really had no competition to worry about. This year, we raced with the GM Vortec package. Its performance was flawless. Three times we didn't finish a race. Once due to breaking an Imco drive input shaft, the other two were overheating due to a water hose in the transom being damaged which shut off cooling water to the engine. Both times the engine went into a protect mode which shut us down to a fast idle. Both times the engine was undamaged. The GM Vortec guys were always there when we needed them. And at the races, what was theirs was ours.
Here's the interesting part. This last season we had a number of occasions to buy stuff from the Mercury truck. They had everything we needed, were fair on price, and offered help and suggestions that were certainly appreciated. We went to Lake X where I learned some new ideas to better our equipment. In fact, at the worlds in Key west, the Mercury guys bent over backwards for us. They fixed a broken drive while we waited, loaned me a couple of special tools so we could make other repairs correctly, even came over to our pits to see how things were going and lend a hand. Nobody can ask for more than that.
So, did things get better because there's a new name at the dock? Maybe. A little competition never hurts. I only hope that GM Vortec doesn't boost the price of their lease program too much. If the GM Vortec prices stay within easy reach, maybe Mercury will follow suit.
APBA offshore racing is moving forward and heading the right direction. There certainly things we would all like to see happen, but look at the changes we've seen just in the last couple of years. Things could always get better, but we need to approach these matters as the professionals that we are.
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