Vortec engines in APBA OFFSHORE IN F-1 AND IN F-2 CLASSES WHAT DO YOU THINK??
12-23-2002, 01:58 PM
#72
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As to quality, GM has been the basis for most successful offshore inboard powerplants......so that is a given. But, they have never before ventured into the direct sale marine marketplace, preferring to cooperate with people like Mercury, OMC, Volvo and many others. By putting themselves in this new venture they are making a statement that these older relationships are secondary to them. Quality is a function of both initial construction and after sale service. GM, at present does not have a proven marine service network.......and that will be the key to their performance.
While this appears to be a minor challenge for one of the largest companys in the world.....I just read that Merrill Lynch has taken a large position in GM investment. In today's golf shirt wearing, back stabbing, corporate speak environment, this marine effort is only a pen stroke away from either proper capitalization.........or extinction...depending upon such things as corporate accounting scandals, the relative position of stars and/or the next mega-merger.
Things to ponder......................
T2x
While this appears to be a minor challenge for one of the largest companys in the world.....I just read that Merrill Lynch has taken a large position in GM investment. In today's golf shirt wearing, back stabbing, corporate speak environment, this marine effort is only a pen stroke away from either proper capitalization.........or extinction...depending upon such things as corporate accounting scandals, the relative position of stars and/or the next mega-merger.
Things to ponder......................
T2x
12-23-2002, 06:07 PM
#74
Geronimo36
Gold Member
Originally posted by T2x
As to quality, GM has been the basis for most successful offshore inboard powerplants......so that is a given.
As to quality, GM has been the basis for most successful offshore inboard powerplants......so that is a given.
Thanks for the support on this one, I agree. Most of the engines developed today by Merc are derivatives of the original GM design.
I am a tried true merc fan, but for the most part, in the past GM built their motors for durability not necessarily peak performance. IMHO, I believe that if the GM program fails, Merc will pick up the pieces and start selling these wonderful engines with the Merc. name on the valve covers.
It is going to be interesting to watch. GM can use a lot of their data to develop better engines for not only boats, but more durable and better perfoming engines for our cars, trucks, and SUV's. I believe one of the best places to test is on the race course in an uncontrolled environment, not some controlled dyno chamber.
Panther.
12-23-2002, 08:02 PM
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Gentlemen,
Thank-you for your input, comments and ideas. The feedback you provide in this forum is listened to and used if possible to make GM marine engines and the programs we participate in better for us at GM and for you the customers as well.
I had the pleasure of being one of the GM engineers on the VORTEC 8100 HP3 validation program with the APBA this year. While no program is ever perfect we hope that the general concensus is that the VORTEC program and our relationship with the APBA is good for racers and the sport.
To perhaps further clarify some of the questions and comments made on this thread I offer you these bullet points;
* The reason GM participated in actual racing with the HP3 engine was to validate our engine and component designs in the toughest environment we could find. This is what Offshore Racing is all about. Better marine engines mean better truck and tow vehicle engines. The other HP engines (HP1 and HP2) were also tested extensively by GM prior to them being released to our OEM's like Mercury and Volvo along with others.
* General Motors is not producing or Marinizing engines for the race or OEM marketplace. The HP3 engine that has been developed over the past two racing seasons is available through our traditional OEM accounts if they choose to marinize it. At the Key West race we announced our newest OEM, Innovation Marine of Sarasota, FL. They have announced that they will market the HP3 engine for both race and retail customers.
* The "protect" mode discussed in the thread was fairly accurately described. With the use of Electronic Control Modules (ECM's) we have the ability to user define many variables. In the case of protecting the engine we chose to have the engine self limit it's rpm if oil pressure was too low to sustain high speed operation, or engine temp was sufficiently high enough to potentially cause damage. They automatically correct themselves and reset as soon as the condition is cured. These safeguards are as I said user defined and can be turned off. Should any diehard "gotta race till it siezes" racer with deep pockets desire it and they own the engine I would be happy to turn the safeguard feature off for them.
* GM is proud to be associated with the APBA and all of it's corporate sponsors. In addition to the product development and design validation benefits we believe that Offshore racing like other race venues is a terrific place to advertise the VORTEC brand and GM Tow Vehicles. What better place to illustrate that the "engine under the hood and the engine under the hatch are identicle products. We are also very proud of the fact that virtually every marine engine out there in recreational and most race boats is a GM based engine no matter who does the marinization. We are dedicated to making sure that the technology, quality and durability continues to be improved with each new model year and that GM will maintain this position of genuine support to the world of marine propulsion systems through our network of marine Original Equipment Manufacturers.
And a final thought, while the Vortec development program was fun and exciting to all of us at GM on the HP3 Team, we could not have accomplished what we did this past two seasons without the help of our race teams. They were without a doubt the real pleasure in our efforts! We learned a great deal from them and we hope that we gave something back in return.
To All a Safe and Very Happy Holiday Season and a quick return to safe racing in 2003!
Mark Skrzypek
Thank-you for your input, comments and ideas. The feedback you provide in this forum is listened to and used if possible to make GM marine engines and the programs we participate in better for us at GM and for you the customers as well.
I had the pleasure of being one of the GM engineers on the VORTEC 8100 HP3 validation program with the APBA this year. While no program is ever perfect we hope that the general concensus is that the VORTEC program and our relationship with the APBA is good for racers and the sport.
To perhaps further clarify some of the questions and comments made on this thread I offer you these bullet points;
* The reason GM participated in actual racing with the HP3 engine was to validate our engine and component designs in the toughest environment we could find. This is what Offshore Racing is all about. Better marine engines mean better truck and tow vehicle engines. The other HP engines (HP1 and HP2) were also tested extensively by GM prior to them being released to our OEM's like Mercury and Volvo along with others.
* General Motors is not producing or Marinizing engines for the race or OEM marketplace. The HP3 engine that has been developed over the past two racing seasons is available through our traditional OEM accounts if they choose to marinize it. At the Key West race we announced our newest OEM, Innovation Marine of Sarasota, FL. They have announced that they will market the HP3 engine for both race and retail customers.
* The "protect" mode discussed in the thread was fairly accurately described. With the use of Electronic Control Modules (ECM's) we have the ability to user define many variables. In the case of protecting the engine we chose to have the engine self limit it's rpm if oil pressure was too low to sustain high speed operation, or engine temp was sufficiently high enough to potentially cause damage. They automatically correct themselves and reset as soon as the condition is cured. These safeguards are as I said user defined and can be turned off. Should any diehard "gotta race till it siezes" racer with deep pockets desire it and they own the engine I would be happy to turn the safeguard feature off for them.
* GM is proud to be associated with the APBA and all of it's corporate sponsors. In addition to the product development and design validation benefits we believe that Offshore racing like other race venues is a terrific place to advertise the VORTEC brand and GM Tow Vehicles. What better place to illustrate that the "engine under the hood and the engine under the hatch are identicle products. We are also very proud of the fact that virtually every marine engine out there in recreational and most race boats is a GM based engine no matter who does the marinization. We are dedicated to making sure that the technology, quality and durability continues to be improved with each new model year and that GM will maintain this position of genuine support to the world of marine propulsion systems through our network of marine Original Equipment Manufacturers.
And a final thought, while the Vortec development program was fun and exciting to all of us at GM on the HP3 Team, we could not have accomplished what we did this past two seasons without the help of our race teams. They were without a doubt the real pleasure in our efforts! We learned a great deal from them and we hope that we gave something back in return.
To All a Safe and Very Happy Holiday Season and a quick return to safe racing in 2003!
Mark Skrzypek
12-24-2002, 08:44 AM
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Mark,
Thank you for all your help this year, and thank you for being involved in Offshore.
We were not even in the leasing program, and any time we needed anything from advice to a wire, Mark the GM team were there to help us.
Having good people involved like this is a Win/Win for everyone. We look forward to seeing you in Daytona.
Happy Holidays and a Great New Year,
Chris Reindl
Thank you for all your help this year, and thank you for being involved in Offshore.
We were not even in the leasing program, and any time we needed anything from advice to a wire, Mark the GM team were there to help us.
Having good people involved like this is a Win/Win for everyone. We look forward to seeing you in Daytona.
Happy Holidays and a Great New Year,
Chris Reindl
