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Old 12-23-2002, 02:53 AM
  #11
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Go with the Saturn.
( Hey I work at the Saturn plant).
I would buy not lease.
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Old 12-23-2002, 09:27 AM
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Thanks for all the info!!!
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Old 12-23-2002, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SABER28
big mike,

remember you are taking it in the a$$, your lease payment is based on the interest on the money AND the depreciation of the vehicle, and you know when thats the greatest............
Hard to argue with that. The only benefit for me is that I get a new car every two or so years. My last car I purchased was a 2001 Nissan Pathfinder LE. I paid $1500 below invoice, made huge payments for 2 years (at 3.9% interest), and was still $1500 upside down when I traded it in last month. For my lease deals, I still negotiate the same purchase price upfront. Then instead of buying, I lease it. Make payments that are 20% less than if I buy it outright, and walk away free and clear after 24 months.

Leasing is a good deal if, like I said, you want a new car every 2 or 3 years, want smaller payments, and can take care of the car and not go beyond 15,000 miles per year. I just leased a 2003 Lexus GS300 for no money down, 36 months, 15,000 miles per year for $100 less per month than buying. That included losing $1500 on my trade, $600 lease aquisition fee, all factory recommended maintenance for 45,000 miles, and all stealer fees. No disposition fee at the tail end either. That was through Toyota Motor Credit. I typically break even on a purchase car after 30-36 months. By leasing I do not need to worry about negotiating a trade. This gives me buying clout when I shop for a new car. The bottom line is I am saving $3600 over 36 months by leasing over buying. The residual values can be found all over the internet, so you should know if the dealer is screwing you. Also, shop your money factor. One lender may look good based on residual but is sticking it to you on the money factor.

Run the numbers both ways and see what works out better for you. I have never had a car more than 36 months so leasing is the best route for me. If you keep a car until the wheels fall off, I would buy.

I do not agree with the sales tactic of offering 60 month leases.
If you NEED to lease a vehicle for 60 months, you should reevaluate your situation because you probably can't really afford the car you are interested in.

All nothing more than my opinion.

Mike
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Old 12-23-2002, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mcollinstn
Yeah, like Saber said.

If you are leasing, you are buying at retail or at a discounted retail price (way above wholesale). You are paying the principal and interest on the car for the loan term and letting them have it back at wholesale.

Here is when a lease makes sense:
1) When you know that you will turn the vehicle in and it will be worth less than the previously determined trade in value.
2) If you expect the vehicle to be involved in an expensive wreck - we all know that our car, once wrecked, is never worth what it should be. Lease returns cannot discriminate against a repaired automobile if it has been repaired at their own chain of dealerships.
3) If you just don't like the hassle of wondering when you will be trading cars...
I mostly agree. I do not however agree with the statement about buying at or near retail. You should negotiate the same purchase price whether you are leasing or buying. I paid $975 over invoice on a Lexus. You sound like you know what you are talking about so you should know that is a good deal on a Lexus. I shopped my trade all over town and the Lexus dealer gave me within $200 of the highest trade offer. Overall a good deal. Not great by any means, but good. I got the dealers best price including my trade and came back home and ran the numbers on a lease calculator and made a 60 month amortization table on Excel. I looked on Kelly Blue Book to determine what the car should be worth in 3 years and double checked that number with one of the leasequote.com websites. I determined that I would break even on the car right at the 36 month point. That made it easy. All I had to do was compare the monthly payments (I included a $500 aquisition fee and monthly tax on the lease) and leasing was the winner. I am not worried about the milage because I pay $.15/mile over the 45,000 and write off $.36/mile as a business expense. It works out to be close enough for government work in the end.

Are you in the car business???

If so, does scenario #2 above ever happen? I would like to take that guy to bet the ponies.

Mike
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Old 12-23-2002, 05:56 PM
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Gottahaveit-if you want a real kick in the pants, take the boost dump valve rod a turn or too. No more than two though!
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Old 12-23-2002, 05:57 PM
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I mean "give" not "take". (computer crashes when I edit)
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Old 12-27-2002, 01:06 AM
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BM

Yeah, I know a guy who fits #2. Leased an E420 Benz. Had it two months when a train took the frontend off it along with the motor. Insurance refused to total it.

Car was repaired. Vehicle history showed major damage/partial rebuild (but title remained clean).

Near the end of the lease term, he was shopping cars and of course, all of the salesmen wanted to check out his trade. He knew full well he wasn't going to trade cause he was gonna turn it in. He let the guys look it over and drive it. Most guys spotted the paintwork quickly (black pearl, the flake never matches exactly right), but only a couple spotted the number mismatch on the front and rear sheetmetal. They all ran a Carfax and saw the wreck notice. Best trade he saw was $3,500 less than rough book (low end of wholesale). If he had owned the car, he would have been reamed. Course he never planned this when he opted to lease.

Yeah, we do leases all the time and sure you can negotiate the "starting point" of the lease. It's still based off of Retail (or a discounted Retail).

Your pathfinder story is typical of lots of vehicles that simply don't hold resale. And some of these dips in resale value can occur unexpectedly. All you got on the frontend is past history which may not follow true.

Your Lexus lease is sweet. In our area, Lexus numbers have been off so badly that "silent discounts" have become common on them (a silent discount is an inordinately high value on a trade-in to get the numbers in line without having to drop below a "line in the sand" at a discount percentage break).

If you ran true numbers on a 36 month breakeven then you have all the ammo you need to make a good decision. Most folks just don't do that. Excel doesn't lie.
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