Diesel Vs Gas (value)!
01-26-2003, 02:50 PM
#12
Registered
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mcollinstn....So why do I get treated like dirt when I go to buy a new car
Dealers must make more money on these people than people like me who pay cash and have high beacon scores.
Dealers must make more money on these people than people like me who pay cash and have high beacon scores.
01-26-2003, 03:11 PM
#13
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Dealers DEFINITELY make more money on financed deals than on cash-n-carry. Anybody who thinks differently is mistaken (at least from what I know about the industry).
In these days of being able to get a printout of a vehicles' dealer invoice from different websites, the margin on new vehicles is tight, indeed. In fact, on Cash-N-Carry deals, the average profit over true invoice is rarely over five or six hundred $$ (for domestic vehicles - Lexus is another story altogether).
With financing, the dealership will make money off the backside of the loan, will get "points" with their lenders (some require you to sell a certain quota of loans to get their best programs), it is easier to sell extended warranties for financed vehicles (the story about making payments on something broke down in the driveway seems to sell a lot of warranties), gap insurance, credit life insurance, hey - it all adds up.
If you don't have a buddy running the dealership, your best bet is to KNOW what you want, find it on a lot, DO NOT tell the salesman you will be paying CASH. Tell him ONLY that you will not be trading anything.
If you like the car, instead of making them an "offer", hand them a check made out at your true offer price and tell them to take it to the manager. Tell him that either you trade check for title or you walk. (be sure to include taxes and tags). A good place to start is to first make sure you know what the dealer incentives are for that vehicle - deduct those from the invoice price. Plan to pay $250 over invoice for most vehicles. Slow-moving vehicles offer less - stuff that is "hot" may not be negotiable at all depending on what their allotment is and whether there is a waiting list or not.
It is best to do this at the end of a month, regardless of what people tell you.
(this is all info to use on a NEW vehicle from a New car dealership - it is different for a used car and different again on a car from an independent lot).
In these days of being able to get a printout of a vehicles' dealer invoice from different websites, the margin on new vehicles is tight, indeed. In fact, on Cash-N-Carry deals, the average profit over true invoice is rarely over five or six hundred $$ (for domestic vehicles - Lexus is another story altogether).
With financing, the dealership will make money off the backside of the loan, will get "points" with their lenders (some require you to sell a certain quota of loans to get their best programs), it is easier to sell extended warranties for financed vehicles (the story about making payments on something broke down in the driveway seems to sell a lot of warranties), gap insurance, credit life insurance, hey - it all adds up.
If you don't have a buddy running the dealership, your best bet is to KNOW what you want, find it on a lot, DO NOT tell the salesman you will be paying CASH. Tell him ONLY that you will not be trading anything.
If you like the car, instead of making them an "offer", hand them a check made out at your true offer price and tell them to take it to the manager. Tell him that either you trade check for title or you walk. (be sure to include taxes and tags). A good place to start is to first make sure you know what the dealer incentives are for that vehicle - deduct those from the invoice price. Plan to pay $250 over invoice for most vehicles. Slow-moving vehicles offer less - stuff that is "hot" may not be negotiable at all depending on what their allotment is and whether there is a waiting list or not.
It is best to do this at the end of a month, regardless of what people tell you.
(this is all info to use on a NEW vehicle from a New car dealership - it is different for a used car and different again on a car from an independent lot).
01-26-2003, 03:49 PM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Excellent "Readers Digest condensed version" of the car industry.
I'm sure you figured out why doing this at the end of the month is better. Dealerships get additional bonus money (additional rebates to the dealer, additional advertising money etc.) when they go over their quota by a certain number. They also loose a portion of their normal rebates when they are below their number of vehicles sold for the month. With all the internet information out there, and the economy where it is, some of the small to mid-size dealerships are having a time making their numbers.
A car salesman realizes he will make around the $100 minimum for a cash buyer (that's what it was when I sold cars)unless the person is very uneducated about the vehicle they want, versus $600 to $1,000 for doing a long term lease to someone with poor credit, with an extended warranty, and insurance. That could be why you weren't treated well. That's too bad because that is short sighted. Treat everyone well, and get lots of referrals.
I'm sure you figured out why doing this at the end of the month is better. Dealerships get additional bonus money (additional rebates to the dealer, additional advertising money etc.) when they go over their quota by a certain number. They also loose a portion of their normal rebates when they are below their number of vehicles sold for the month. With all the internet information out there, and the economy where it is, some of the small to mid-size dealerships are having a time making their numbers.
A car salesman realizes he will make around the $100 minimum for a cash buyer (that's what it was when I sold cars)unless the person is very uneducated about the vehicle they want, versus $600 to $1,000 for doing a long term lease to someone with poor credit, with an extended warranty, and insurance. That could be why you weren't treated well. That's too bad because that is short sighted. Treat everyone well, and get lots of referrals.
01-26-2003, 04:07 PM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ill compare my last two trucks:
98 Ford F150 in 43k miles ate two trannys, two sets of brakes, one set of rear shocks, needed tires soon.
99 Ford F250 PSD w/68k miles. 1 set of tires.
I dont care what your towing, if its more than a bass boat, get a real truck with real truck parts. My F150 had the same drivetrain as a Crown Vic but they rate them to tow 7-8k pounds. Brakes and tranny were gone first time at 20k miles towing a 92 single engine 251 Liberator almost all highway. I have 68k on my Superduty and the brakes were just checked when I had the front end aligned. Sure you see gas trucks with 100k on the clock in great condition. Not even a scratch in the bed or on the hitch receiver either.
98 Ford F150 in 43k miles ate two trannys, two sets of brakes, one set of rear shocks, needed tires soon.
99 Ford F250 PSD w/68k miles. 1 set of tires.
I dont care what your towing, if its more than a bass boat, get a real truck with real truck parts. My F150 had the same drivetrain as a Crown Vic but they rate them to tow 7-8k pounds. Brakes and tranny were gone first time at 20k miles towing a 92 single engine 251 Liberator almost all highway. I have 68k on my Superduty and the brakes were just checked when I had the front end aligned. Sure you see gas trucks with 100k on the clock in great condition. Not even a scratch in the bed or on the hitch receiver either.
Last edited by Intolerant1; 01-26-2003 at 04:12 PM.
01-26-2003, 04:58 PM
#16
Chevy-Harley fan
Charter Member
Mcollinstn, I have a dealers license so I know where you are coming from. But if those 60% ers didn't buy over their head maybbe they would be 30% ers. But that's another story that their mommy and daddy should have taught them about. And it's too bad it cost so much to fix a newer used car if you can't do it yourself. The days of shade tree mech. are a thing of the past since OBD-2 cars came out, (even sooner) thank God for my snap on scanner.
Intolerant1, a F150 is a station wagon. Now lets compare apples to oranges. Not counting the big block, you have the option to buy a 2500 (3/4 ton) Chevy with a 6.0 motor that will do almost anything you ask of it.
GearHead99, Yes I have changed a couple of intake gaskets on 5.7's before. Just sucks when it's yours and your not geting paid for it. I have done a fair amount of vortech head swaps on Corvettes with the Chevy carb intake. What a cheap bolt on HP gain for a small block. Where do you work? we'll have to do Rachels for lunch someday. Let me know when your ready, Tues. or Weds. are best. (Primerib or Roostbeef days)
Pete
Intolerant1, a F150 is a station wagon. Now lets compare apples to oranges. Not counting the big block, you have the option to buy a 2500 (3/4 ton) Chevy with a 6.0 motor that will do almost anything you ask of it.
GearHead99, Yes I have changed a couple of intake gaskets on 5.7's before. Just sucks when it's yours and your not geting paid for it. I have done a fair amount of vortech head swaps on Corvettes with the Chevy carb intake. What a cheap bolt on HP gain for a small block. Where do you work? we'll have to do Rachels for lunch someday. Let me know when your ready, Tues. or Weds. are best. (Primerib or Roostbeef days)
Pete
01-26-2003, 06:45 PM
#17
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Agreed in whole about the people buying over their heads.
Can't fix what you can't control though...
Mfrs DO rate tow capacities on the toys (1/2 ton trucks) way too high. Tow rating on a 1/2 ton is for OCCASIONAL non-mountainous towing ONLY. Just the BRAKES alone on a 3/4 ton truck vs a half tonner are a good reason to upgrade.
Can't fix what you can't control though...
Mfrs DO rate tow capacities on the toys (1/2 ton trucks) way too high. Tow rating on a 1/2 ton is for OCCASIONAL non-mountainous towing ONLY. Just the BRAKES alone on a 3/4 ton truck vs a half tonner are a good reason to upgrade.
01-26-2003, 07:24 PM
#18
Registered
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Quincy, IL
Posts: 575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok you guys are telling me if someone is looking for a truck to pull 13,000 trailer and he is on a budget of say $7000 he is going to be better off buying a 100,000+ mile gasser than a 100,000+ diesel???
If you believe in that I'll bring a truckload of 100,000+ mile gassers to you for $20,000 a pop.
If you believe in that I'll bring a truckload of 100,000+ mile gassers to you for $20,000 a pop.
01-26-2003, 08:58 PM
#20
Registered
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: st. clair shores mi ,us
Posts: 1,620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
$65 for an oil change ?!?!? What are you running Amzoil or something ?
I can't speak for the Isuzu or Powerstroke but I run over to the Cummins dealer and get an oil filter $8 and 3 gallons of Premium blue for $28. And after that I can take the empty gallon jugs back and buy the oil in bulk for even less.
As far as the Dodge goes, I've looked in the paper for prices of used 01's like mine and have seen the from $23k -$26k , I paid $30k (new) for mine out the door , and it's got just about every option.
I don't think a 1500/360 truck will hold that type of value.
I can't speak for the Isuzu or Powerstroke but I run over to the Cummins dealer and get an oil filter $8 and 3 gallons of Premium blue for $28. And after that I can take the empty gallon jugs back and buy the oil in bulk for even less.
As far as the Dodge goes, I've looked in the paper for prices of used 01's like mine and have seen the from $23k -$26k , I paid $30k (new) for mine out the door , and it's got just about every option.
I don't think a 1500/360 truck will hold that type of value.
