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Old 02-09-2003, 06:05 PM
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No nerve Steve just trying to learn from a guy that knows a LOT more about boat building then I ever will If my questions seem stupid to you it is just due to my total lack of understanding on what makes a good boat good and a bad one bad (other then actually driving them). Like my Formula for example. I originally purchased that to turn over quick and sell. Now I am up to my butt hole in projects with it because I drove it and fell in love. Guess it is better to be lucky then good in my case but I am trying to understand what makes a good hull and what makes a bad one.

Now if you want to take stereo systems

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Old 02-09-2003, 06:34 PM
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Steve 1, from reading various posts over a long period I'm aware you know much more than I ever will about boat design. I, like Audio, am just trying to "learn" more about the good and bad elements of boat hull (cat or V) design and the hydrodynamics involved. I'm an engineer by training and I find it very interesting and informative. I was curious if you had researched this boat design specfically or were just speculating based on what you saw/ heard. Looks like you did do your homework. That the government is enamored with/ buying outdated technology is par for the course. Usually by the time they get done reviewing spec's, testing submissions, revising spec's again, then rounds two through n of testing, before actually placing an order, the technology is two generations old.
Why they would/ wouldn't keep a constant DR bow to stern with respect to a cat/ split hull may be obvious to you but I haven't a clue. That's why I asked....
 
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Old 02-09-2003, 07:10 PM
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I was never trying to Talk down or Insult you Guys If you took my comments that way;

I apologize most humbly

My humor is sort of dry and that is taken into my replies sometimes.
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Old 02-09-2003, 07:17 PM
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So what is "forward Recovery"???

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Old 02-09-2003, 07:40 PM
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Sure certainly has a narrow tunnel and 27 ft?where are they planning on running with that kind of length?

It still puzzles me that when the War On Drugs budget was pulled, a guy I used to help out with his laminating had contracts for several cats with our Government. Naturally they got a great price for ordering so many boats. Well they took delivery only on about three and then the budget was cut.
I felt so bad for this guy after seeing all he had to go through to get the contracts in the first place. Engineering, Designs, Plans and samples of lamination schedules to governmental standards.

Then you see a company such as this one start popping boats for them. Not knocking the builder, but the government could have at least honored the rest of their contract with this company first before moving on.
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Old 02-09-2003, 08:03 PM
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These are elements we design into the foreword section of the boat to help prevent Bow Submersion or “Stuffing” because where it goes the rest follows to be quite blunt!

Now here is the thing a Catamaran has nothing in the bow area (talking displacement volume) that is when compared to a Monohull of comparable size L+B
Here an example…the military pulled this on me in a 5 foot following Sea they drop the bow into a hole and chop the throttle!

Now this will test an everyday military bound cat at its weakest point….. For there is next to none foreword displacement (remember two slender hulls) and at low speed that is about all you have to recover with -Simple Static Displacement!.

Now high speed a much different story all sorts of cool things the magic word Dynamic comes into play… and the and the cleverness of the designer is exemplified with shapes and the placement of lifting Strips-Pads-Chine-and the shape of the Stem Knee in General.

But here is the paradox Remember “Boat Mode” and our good low speed friend Mr. Displacement well at high speed he becomes an enemy too much bow flair is also a problem ,again it is up to the Designer/Engineer just how much.

Myself I was lucky and used my tunnel height as an advantage for this test was a complete surprise. And would normally require a trip all the way back to the drawing stage.
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Old 02-09-2003, 08:35 PM
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Steve do you think that they design could be one that was choosen to run safer then faster? Would that perhaps account for the design? I went back and watched some of the video's and read some of the pages that I could not open before. I noticed that when the boat takes off it tends to go seemingly very bow high for a cat. Is that do you think a factor of poor design, poor balance, or poor driving?

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Old 02-09-2003, 09:39 PM
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It is only 27 feet long with big outboards hanging off the transom- wet 1200# fuel- full of gear and crew of 6 another 1200# the fuel tanks should be at least over the center of gravity or close.

Also the bottom it is trying to climb up on dead rise with the water in the tunnel does not help much either.

On plane time is an real issue with some of the evaluation crews the length is what is confusing me! personally the Shortest real Blue Water Cat I have ever built (and that under protest) is 10 Meters.

The pluses they are using Core cell Foam (the Best) and those people are very Technical and helpful so the Boats weight should not be an Issue
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Old 02-09-2003, 10:00 PM
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these boats are built just across the bay from me and they are a mono hull split in half. They have been working on this design for many years and have tested along side a good friend of mine in his Nova Spider. They have modified the hull alot to make it run better. Jon these are the molds sitting outside the marina we hang at... remember.
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Old 02-09-2003, 11:27 PM
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Mark ya I remember you and I having a conversaion about them one day. I also stopped by and walked around looking at the molds and stuff that they have alying around. You know curriosity killed the cat type thing.

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