3/11 UPDATE - Your thoughts on Formula boat purchase
 

Since we sold the Go-Fast last year, we have been focusing on a Formula 2003 370SS or 2000 400SS. Finally got it narrowed down to 2 of each and want to make a decision by Friday.

370 Plus side: 1.99% financing and 5 year warranty. Boat has everything we want. New 496 Mag HO's, Bravo 3x drives, better fuel economy, and cheaper for storage and dockage at Put-n-Bay :D

370 Bad side: Depreciation when buying new (although 1.99% and our down payment keeps everything in check at the 3 year mark - hopefully :eek:). Payment goes up $339 per mth at end of 3 years - new rate is 4.99%. A little bit tighter to gain access to aft queen bed (i.e., tight sqeeze for fat butt).

400 Plus side: Negotiated great deal on one out of state and my friends his pretty close in price also. Larger cabin and easier access to everything. Boats have already taken the first 3 year depreciation hit. Financing rate of 5.5% (ends Friday though). Low hours @ 150 and 240 for each boat.

400 Bad side: Shipping and other expenses for out of state boat. Was told bravo 3 on heavier boats with high horsepower were failing. Formula has special deal to replace both drives and gimbles for $6000 (expires June 03). NO 5 YR WARRANTY. Older engines compared with 496's. A little more expensive to run.

Payments for all boats are with in $60 per month of each other with special 1.99% financing on new 370.

What would my fellow "Middle Class" american OSO'ers consider?? Am I dumb for even thinking of buying a new (expensive) vs a great deal/shape used boat with no warranties?? I said I would never buy a new boat again, but now I am thinking about!!

P.S. Don't say by another go-fast this week. Maybe next week :D

YOUR FEEDBACK IS VERY MUCH APPREACIATED!

It depends on what your definition of middle class is! There are many other variables that alot of us middle classers don't think about before purchasing that dream boat.

Insurance 200/month?
Storage 2-400/month?
tow rig (if towing) 6-800/month?
Gas $/month?
Bar Tabs:D :D

I've been thinking hard about getting a bigger boat, but I refuse to put myself into that situation until I can swing it financially.

Just my opinion and you know what people say about opinions:D


Craig

Man I must be in the Middle lower class :D :D

Both sound like good deals....i think if i were in your situation i would look at my tow rig (if you're gonna be trailering) The stoarge space for the boat (lucky for me i have a big factory to keep it in) Are you gonna keep it in a slip over the summer? I know the harbor where my buddy keeps his 38 at, the slips go up to 40'. A 40' boat plus a hydrohoist will need to go to a 50' slip and thus more money again!
Then the gas issue.....twin engines either way will drink some gas but the 40' is heavier and will drink more then the 37.
Yes the warrantee issue would play into the factor bigtime...but if your friends take care of their toys then maybe i would feel a bit better knowing that.
I'm sure there are more angles to look at but these are the first that pop into my head when i read your post. Good luck with which ever one you buy! :D

Yup the 40 will cost ya more to run that is for sure. You have to decide if the features are worth it.

Jon

We will be keeping boat in a well at our marina. It is a standard 40 x 14 well. Water is very clean there also. But I will be busy scrubbing bottom each weekend to keep clean. May even haul out once or twice to have cleaned. Last boat sucked down a lot of gas, I was ok with 2-3K a season on gas.

My friend does indeed keep everything in ship shape, has everything done professionally.

Insurance is cheaper than go fast and storage (for winter) will cost more, used to pay $240 to store in a friends barn. I think it is about 2k for winter.

AND I won't be towing any of these boats with a truck...that would be one big pain in the a$$.

Well, you're not going to be trailing it, unless you have a semi + permits - the 370 is 14,400 lbs dry with a 10'6" beam, the 400 is 15,500 dry with an 11' beam...

The warranty on a new boat is nice, but Formula is supposed to be pretty good on customer service. Mike, have you looked into taking the cash back on the 370, then going with the 5.5% financing you have for the 400? I got a CD from Formula and the cash back on the 370 is $8K - that's 2 seasons of dockage and gas, give or take... worth thinking about, anyhow.

I'd say the boats are a wash - I personally love the 400, always have. The 370 looks like's twin brother - does the new boat have the painted hullsides? They look great in the brochure, but I'd have to wonder how those dark colors will look after a season or three of "dock rash".... As for the cabin, how much will you be overnighting?

Tough call either way - wish I had your problems! Let your daughter decide - have her point to the picture of the one she wants :D Seriously, if you're going to keep it for a while, I'd look hard at the new boat, with 5.5% financing and take the $8K off your best deal (from what I understand, the money back is direct from the factory - you make your best deal with the dealer, then tell him you want the cash back). If you think you might sell early, you might want a used boat that's already taken that depreciation hit...

Good luck - we're heading down to the Detroit show in about an hour...

Big Formula
 

Those are both fantastic boats. we see our fair share of them down here in S. Florida.
I have heard of the drive troubles when you expect a Bravo to push that much weight. I wonder why Formula doesn't use a V Drive or better yet...a surface drive like the Pulse Drive. The Pulse drive is extremely reliable, and will not have any trouble moving that tuna wagon around.
At the very least.. you could buy the used boat and throw some B Max drives on it. Yes, you have the money, and No you're not middle class.

Like previously said... Buy new if you are planning to keep it for a long time. Buy used if you may sell in 3 years. But then again, what does a rich man care if he looses $40k in three years??

Lastly: What do you do for a living? And are they/you hiring?

I ran the numbers with the $8000 cash back. No advantage of taking the $8k + my cash down. Balance is the same at the end of 3 years. What is worse, my first 3 years of pymts would be $300 higher each month than using 1.99%.

The 370 would be blue or red, my choice. I love the red...looks very sharp. Everyone says imron paint will last a very long time.

I plan on doing a lot more over-nighting this year. Head out Friday night and don't come home until Sunday evening. Also taking trips to PNB, Cleveland, Grand Bend Ont., Cedar Point, etc.

If we don't use that much, then I would be upset we boat the boat with bigger cabin. Otherwise I would buy another Go-Fast and use it for speed fun during week and then make daytrips with daughter.

With my luck, my daughter will point to the 400 and a 38 Go-fast. Then I'd have to buy both to keep her happy, right???

How much more would a 2001 400SS run there are several on yachtworld for sale. The '01 would give you the balance of a 5 year warranty. Otherwise I would buy a used 37 and save the dough. My .02

Hmmmmm- I love Formulas- great boat and even better factory support.......

But have you looked at a good used BlackThunder?:D

When did the 37 come out?? Can you hold off till the summer and start looking for a used 37?

first production year for the 370SS was 2001, that's why you don't find too many used ones yet.

Make your best deal on a new one first. You will be surprised what they might take if you walk in holding a 10k check for dep. Even if have to go to a dealer leftover. I never dreamed I could afford a new 38 PQ till I got REAL serious with the owner of the dealership. Dont mess around with salesmen, go right to the top. The warranty and customer service is alot better for original owners also.

Well, we just got back from the Detroit boat show - they had a new 370 SS, and all I can say is, DAMN, that is one FINE boat!! I wouldn't even let my wife go near it! ;)

Bro, you can't go wrong with either one - I'd have to say that new might be the way to go... warranty does come in hand... and those painted hullsides are just killer!

Just a thought here, but a friend of mine owns a 400SS and has never had an issue with the drives. I guess if it is "hammered" a lot and really press the throttles from dead stop... then yeh, you could probably break something...but then you would be asking for it too. Any heavy boat will be the same way.
You say you will overnight two nights a week, so I think you would really regret not having the extra space & the smoother ride of the 400SS. I just can dream of one .... man those are nice!

:D

Been on both, and actually think the 370 is the better boat. 400 has only a small amount of extra room and the 370 is "plenty good" in the midcabin space once you plop in the narrowish entry. Without a tape measure, I'm almost convinced the cockpit space is identical (I know its not, but side by side they feel awful close).

I really think you should invest in a lift (another $12 grand) cause you will end up with scaly chalk blisters on your drives and hull stains that will kill your resale more than the cost of the lift.

You'll also lose right at 4mph with the inwater bottom, regardless of how clean you think you are getting it.

496's had a corrosion issue in an exhaust fitting - mid 02's and newer use a plastic fitting that doesn't fail. Other than that, they've been decent motors to all who have them around here (freshwater).

400SS around here with B3's went thru 3 drives in 400 hours.

And Imron lasts like you wouldn't believe. Great stuff (I like the blue)...

Re: Your thoughts on Formula boat purchase (Long)
 

Yes

The new Bravo3X drives should be plenty strong on any 370 or 400,even with HP500's

I read through this whole thread, and this guy hit the nail right on the head. If you are seriously considering buying NEW, let them know upfront that you have a couple 400s you are seriously considering, then low blow them with your offer. 9 times out of 10 if you walk away, they are gonna wanna talk.

If that doesnt work out, the depreciation factor would be the big factor if it was me. The used boats already took the biggest depreciation hits they will take in their existence. I doubt that the space issue on the 370 over the 400 would be that big of a deal. Hell, I spent a Friday till Sunday on a buddies open bow Maxum this summer, and we had plenty of room! :D

Big Formula and Bravos..
 

I don't think the drive problem happens when trying to planer the boat. Most drive failure, in any boat occurs when the operator gets the props out of the water, and doesn't let off on the throttle. That sudden grab when the props bite tends to bend the center shaft, and snap towers.
We get a lot of that here because of the big water we have to run in. I've never run one of those big Formulas, but I do know that my little 28' Pantera spends plenty of time with the drives in the air.. but I know enough to stay on top of the throttle all the time...

You may get away with it if you spend most of your time in smooth water..

I'm guessing that if you're airing out a 15k+ lbs express cruiser, you're going too damn fast! :eek: ;)

You should see some of these guys airing out 370's and 400's, especially those with HP500's.The gensets lose cooling water at about 55mph:)

Dude, your delusional. Your not middle class, nobody in the middle class could touch either boat! Although noble, your financial analysis is a red herring. The only financial analysis you need comes from the old saying, “if you have to ask, you can’t afford it.” My updated version (for us boating nuts) would be, if you need to sharpen your pencil to make it work, you shouldn’t. My guess is, you don’t need to sharpen your pencil.

Now the real issue. Which one do you want? Your buying this for psychic reasons! Boating is our escape, our sanctuary. Boating is that one place you know you can go and get away from all the stupid pressures that come with life.

Don’t look down at the figures on the paper, look out the window at your soul. Which boat feeds that?

Then, post pictures! :D :D :D

UT,
Good take on the situation! Oh, and I want to see some pics of a 400 catchin air!

96, What are the prices If I may ask??? I am going to the Miami Boat show and could compare. Also you may be able to get into a 47' with trip 500's for the same cost or less. (My fountain that is) with custom paint and all. :D :D

Jeebus Ray, you're getting to be as bad as Too Old! At least have the decency to finish the boat BEFORE you sell it (and post pics, too!!!) :D

i would go with the forty. actually it should cost less to run because the hull is more efficient then the 37. the forty offers a really nice ride. haven't heard of bravo failer but if that is the case it's usally from miss use. just take care of them. as per warrenty you can add on a three year extended warenty to the boat. that should do ya. plus you won't lose as much when your going to sell it. warrenty should cost you about 1500.00.

just my two cent's
oh yeah, if you buy the new one be prepared to hold it at least 8 years for the minimum or you will be upside down, gurrenteed. that's a long time. think hard. also the motors from three years ago to today are not much diffrent so don't let that sway you.

Treadwell

Hi,Eric.Actually at most speeds and rpms,the 370 is a little more efficient than the 400, but not a lot of difference one way or the other. And interestingly we have found that the Hp500's in a boat this heavy are slightly more efficient than 496HOs/502MPI's cause the 500's are not laboring quite as much. Again only slight difference but those 500's sure have awesome midrange in a big boat. And same 5 year warranty. We haven't had any drive issues much either,you are right,misuse. Problem is some owners don't understand"misuse".And whether you stay upside down depends on many factors,selling price,down payment,interest rate,etc.We don't know the pricing of the 3 boats in question,there are way too many variables here,but a 370 or 400 should make anyone smile:)

I could hook you up with a 99 40SS with 502's and 256 hours for 189,900. Let me know if you have any other questions. We are also offering 6 mo. no pay and no interest on new boats this week because of the D.C. boat show.

I was in training all day today, so i didn't have time to read the posts. All the opinions are great!!! I do think we are middle class...wife and I are both accountants so we have our pencils sharp all the time. This has allowed us to afford an upgrade in boat. No other debt except mtg payment...which we just refinanced and save another $100 per month.

On the Black Thunder....nice, but I do not see much for re-sale and the crapper won't work for me...to tight for someone 6'3" 225#'s

Ray, The 47 fountain is nice, but I don't want to deal with tripple engines. Also, I didn't llike having to bend over so much in the cabin. Damn..I sound like a cry baby and I'm only 31. I'd love to get another go-fast...and will...but I want to try the sport cruiser and see if it really feets my taste????

Based on my discussion last night with the owner of dealer selling the boat we like, I have eliminated him from our selection process. I WILL NEVER BUY A BOAT OR RECOMMEND BUYING A BOAT FROM HIS DEALERSHIP...EVER! I was asked to come back down to the boat show to negotiate further...what a waste of my Fuc*ing time! There was just him probing me for lots of details like who else I've been talking to and in the end, was $10,000 higher then my other price. Said he will "shove it up the other dealers ass" if I take business from his area.

I informed him I shop for a boat like I shop for anything else. A nice honest person to deal with that wants my business by quoting me an attractive price. One that doesn't Blow me off or not return phone calls like individuals at his dealership. If he can't compete with other dealers on price, then get out of the business. That is how I am used to business in the auto industry. Enough said.

All other Formula dealers have always been very nice to me, especially Magicfloat. I will send you another email and maybe your 370 with 500's will work.


Both 400's are less than $200K and identical, except one does not have captains call exhaust. I can add that later. The two are $25K apart on price. The one very close to me and my friends has everything on it.

The paint schemes are sweet, especially the Garnet Red.

For the new boat, I am just concerned about the high loan value, with the state of the economy and potential for war. Compared to last boat, loans will be two or three times!!!

My passion for boating has not changed, it seems since our daughter was born last year, I am doing more number crunching on everything because I never want any of my passions to jeopordize her future.

So..I guess I am now looking for 46 Cig ....just joking :)

My/our decision should be made by Friday and I will post lots of pics on my web site.

96Vyper, would the dealer in question happen to have a name that sounds something like "Mcdonald's"? I'm curious, because I asked about them over at the www.lakestclair.net website (a nice resource for us SE Michigan guys, btw) and no one had anything good to say about them. I did get a few comments along the lines of "Momma always said, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything. So I'm not saying anything." Needless to say, that type of feedback would make me nervous about buying a boat from them...

Dockrocker,

You may have an idea of who I am referring to. If you want to buy a new formula, call me or let me know. I will give you the sales guy name and place of another dealer in the Great Lakes that will provide the type of service you would expect.

Or if you want to travel farther, see if MagicFloat has the 28ss in stock.

Time is ticking...two days to decision day...I hope.

Only thing that sucks is I am in training until Friday so it is making it hard to deal on boats.

That's what I thought - like I said, I've heard a fair amount of poor feedback about these guys, though to be fair, I've also talked to some people that say they are great. But I'm more inclined to lend weight to the bad stories; must be my suspicious nature... Of course, when we went to the Boat Show on Tuesday, they had 5 or 6 salespeople there, and not one of them would give us the time of day. Not even so much as a "can I help you" as we spent 20 minutes going over just the 260 and 280, looking through lockers, under benches, etc etc. Guess we didn't look serious enough for them. :rolleyes:

Going to be a while before we're in the boat market... maybe by the time I can pull the finances together, you'll be selling the 370/400 :D

Let us know what happens!

Take a hard look at Magicfloat's 2002 370SS. That boat with 500's will scream. Since the boat is a 2002, the other dealer can do nothing about you buying it. Magicfloat does not know me but I know of him from work I do with the FORMULA factory. I can tell you he is held in very high esteem by the factory and his customers. As you are an accountant, take FORMULA's financing, the numbers work. Enough said, call Magicfloat and have him send you a contract on the 370.

Formula purchase update
 

Well for all those that posted replies, just wanted everyone to know we made are decision and our offer was accepted today on a 2000 Formula 400 SS.

I will post pictures soon on my website.

Bought the one out of state with less than 150 hours. Fresh water boat with all the goodies. We are excited and can't wait to get out on the water this year.

Jobbienooner and Put-n-Bay will be a great time with the extra room and comfort!!

Thanks again for all the comments!

Mike

Congrats and good luck with your new ride:D Remember the happiest day is the day you get it , the scond happiest is....:o

Hey Mike, congrats! Can't wait to see the new baby - we need pics, dammit! :D

Well, I can tell you from experience and I'm sure others will agree, there is NOTHING better than turning the key's on a BRAND NEW boat. That fresh SMELL, not a nick or scratch to be had, The comfort of the warranty, The thought that no one else has had their nakid a$$ on your interior......Yeah If I were you I'd go NEW!!! P.S. You can pick the color scheme

Hey Mike
Forget the last post about the Nakid A$$ on your interior. Just pretend I didn't mention that. Congrats on the 40