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Broke a lifter in a hp500efi.

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Old 04-08-2003, 11:24 PM
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Pile Of S.

All the lifters I've seen broken have ripped off the tie bar.

Makes you wonder if the flatsided lifters and dogbones (like the stockers in a hyd roller GM app) are more reliable. I know Crane makes a set that are good to .650 lift.

I also know that all the 9000 rpm race motors I've seen run solid rollers with tie bars, so maybe the tie bar isn't a culprit.

What do Winston Cup motors have in them?


Thoughts?
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Old 04-08-2003, 11:30 PM
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Ya know, I tried to find a reference to roller lifter damage due to synthetics and I can't...well not really, there are a couple of web posts on car forums but none credible. The funny thing is I found a link to the Mobil1 site where they happened to answer a question on it today Anyhow-Mobil says it doesn't happen-so there ya go. So, roller lifters just flat break after 150 hours or so-something else to change regularly on hobby motors
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Old 04-08-2003, 11:44 PM
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Default Re: Broke a lifter in a hp500efi.

Quote:
Originally posted by mmo jo
Anyone else have this happen? I run nothing but mobil 1 15/50 syn. 238hrs. Hard hrs. I change the oil every 15-20 hrs.
mmo jo,

I really hate to hear this. I run my 500's like you and use the same oil and service interval that you have listed.

Have seen too many of these with more trouble free hours than problems, so I hope this is a rare situation.

Please keep us posted on what you learn.

I have heard the agrument many times, but know more people running synthetic than not and I just cannot buy that that is the problem.

Very interesting stuff though.
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Old 04-09-2003, 12:23 AM
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mcollinstn

I have to kind of agree on stock hydraulic roller lifter keepers vs the tie-bar. Next motor I build will have stock retainers I'm thinking. Only problem I hav eha dis with tie-bar from what I could tell. Don't quote me but I think Winston Cup has to run flat tappet by rules.

Replace every 200 hrs that would be once a year for me!
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Old 04-09-2003, 01:03 AM
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Me too,
Mine were carbed 98' 500's,
and I WASN'T running synthetic oil,
this happened around 180 hours.
This is when I became aware of the
broken valve spring issue.
I am with Ric and Bobby on this too.
Once the roller hits the ramp, pressure
is going to increase, the rollers are gonna
roll.
Even at idle speed, I doubt the roller
will have enough time to
stop rolling when it's on the base circle.

Even if the rollers were sliding on the
base circle, due to the synthetic's slippery
characteristics, whats going to be the harm
in that ?
flat tappets slide on the base circle.
If it's "sliding' on a film of oil, whats going to
wear???
I just changed to AMSOIL,
I havent had a chance to run them yet,
and as I mentioned in another thread,
if I have any major malfunctions,
you guys will be the first to know.
my .02
jt.
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Old 04-09-2003, 05:50 AM
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238 hrs. I think that's a good amount of hours for that. I had a gold series crane roller rocker go bad in half that time. these are High performance engines to me. they need to be checked. parts don't last forever. valve train is the weekest link in any big motor. change over to a 415hp efi mag motor. they run flat tappet hyd. lifters a stamp steel rocker arm a less aggressive cam. a trouble free setup. you will get 238hrs. on that setup I'm sure. want more power? then comes bigger cams with bigger spring pressures roller lifters and rockers. theres allways a trade off. that's the name of the game if you want to go fast!!!!!
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Old 04-09-2003, 08:19 AM
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When I pulled mine apart (same problem BTW) I found that you could push the pin that holds the roller and bearings in out with your finger. I only found this on one motor not the other and heard spomething about a bad batch with a crimp problem. This is NOT confirmed. All I know is that I had to change all of them.
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Old 04-09-2003, 08:37 AM
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I've had two mechanical roller lifters fail in the past two seasons.
I've spoken to several people about this and what I've been told is most of the roller bearings come from the same source and a couple of years ago everyone was having some sort of bearing related problems. Don't know if it's true or not.
Also on the synthetic deal , right from the manufactures mouth .. this person did not recommmend synthetic , not because of rollers sliding on cam lobes but because of excessive wear in the lifter bores. This person recommended Valvoline racing oil because it is one of the last oils with Zinc still in it.
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Old 04-09-2003, 01:49 PM
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Mcollinstn cup cars chevys ford all run ford flat tappet lifters as they have a larger base than g.m."s I threw that in that cup motors ran and had no trouble to see what the other guy on this thread knew and I got my answer !!! As you know most other race stuff that is push rod motored ,,has solid rollers and My quess is most use sny.oil with no problem
You guys are right the gold crane rockers will come apart for real
and make one heck of a mess I try and get people to change for them at 100 to 150 hrs ,,some guys they last forever but that has not been mine or my friends luck .
Also there was a crimp problem with some lifters ,correct !!
Also crane found a problem with stock lifters starting at 590 lift and very bad at 650 so keep that in mind use the right lifter !
At 5600 up the factory lifters start to flex and if run at high rpm will break soon than those run at rpm's below this even the good lifters due to the weight and loss of control will come unglued
at 5800 or up .
If you talk with TRoy Dennis who has doe 1000's of race motors
he and I agree that for solid rollers the only one to use is ISKY their cheaper one are good in the 600 lift and down moderate run
motor,there killer ner one is almost bullet proof and warren Johson even uses them on his 1025 lift and bigger ,,,11,000rpm motors and they live !
The main thing is control,, the lifter ,right spring pressure ,,even rev kit if needed they will live .
Troy a pro I'm a shade tree

Hope this helps

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Old 04-09-2003, 07:23 PM
  #20
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For what it's worth. Went down this road with solid rollers failing at 30 hours. 250# at seat, Crower SD lifters and was running
Mobil 1 or Ames oil. D Crower ask me to go to Kendall GT1 or Valvoline racing due to zinc and another ash which these oils have higher parts per mil. than the other oils. These additives
reportedly damage catalic converters and oil companies have backed off of them over the last few years. I reduced spring pressure by 40# and get over 100 hrs. on a set now. I also spoke to Ames oil a few weeks ago and they confirmed in a high pressure bearing situation zinc and phosphorous are desireable, then they would not disclose their parts per mil.????
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