APBA and SBI
 

What are the differences between APBA and SBI? Which one is better from a racers point of view and a fan? It seems from all the press that the APBA gets that its more popular. Thoughts?

Boy, this is gonna be good.:D

thats what i was thinking

From a fan's perspective, I would say that there is not a big difference except APBA races tend to have more boats.

Here it goes!!!!!!!!!!! I like to watch 'ANY BOATS' race !!!!!!!!!

You guys ready for an old fasshioned, early spring, knock-down, drag-out Brawl?....:D

Wait. Lemme get some popcorn!
I've been going to both as a fan for several years now and like both groups. As long as it's Offshore Racing, I'll be there. APBA has more boats, but for me it's about sites that are convenient to me or have some attraction (like Key West).

From a manufacturing point of view, SBI is better.

From a fan prospective they both need some announcing to allow the fans a clue who is leading and so on.

The press is always biased, ask the iraqi info minister.

pat W

Put the popcorn down and make a statement.


:D

In spite of T2X's comments, I've been following Offshore Racing for 27 years, and have to say at least APBA has brought back "racing". The factory series boats are very evenly matched and on any given day, any boat could win. Last year in Cape Cod, there was at least five different lead changes in F1.
APBA has made the courses shorter to appeal to the spectator, unlike the "olden" days when the boats would head out the inlet, and you would see them once or twice during the race. Another fact is nowadays, most of the boats finish the races, unlike the olden days where a 2/3 of the fleet DNF (did not finish) More boats racing appeals to the spectator. At least today there is "competition' and "racing" as opposed to a "marathon".
Do you think Nascar would be as successful if the same team were to win every weekend? APBA has brought back legitimate competition. Although it may not appeal to everyone, and is not the olden days with 150 mile offshore races, the short courses have been great for the spectator.
I can only remember one year when Offshore racing was on "Wide World of Sports" this past year, every Saturday morning I can catch a race on 'Speedvision'.
I think "the older one gets, the better it was".
I definately prefer the Racing today, compared to yesterday.
See all in Daytona!
BOB G.

T2x,

May be part of this new regime? Or, because I raced back in the 90's I will be considered as having pre-conceived notions that do not mix well with the current business model and will therefore be a detriment to ASBI?:p

Your post has got to be one of the FUNNIEST things I have ever read!

:rolleyes: Here we go again!!.........................:o :rolleyes:

To use the broadest possible brush:
 

APBA = Highly structured racing, with as much emphasis as possible on strict technical regulations and enforcement. Trying to come as close as boat racing ever will to a semi-professional sport/spectacle.

SBI = More casual atmosphere. Bring what ya got, and they'll find a way to race it.

uh........
 

Bob G you know your stuff and are 100% correct. I am disappointed in Rich's little essay. Race where you want to - spend where you want to and you decide where you get the best return for your dollar - BH

My obversations.

APBA:
-Professional
-Excellent Competition
-Long History
-More Sponsors
-More Exposure
-Larger Fleets
-Smaller Courses, better viewing
-World Championship title actually means you are a world champion...UIM(Union Internationale Motonautique) Sanctioned and recognized Speed records and events.
-Key West, Baby!!! The undeniable best race.

SBI:
-An offshoot of APBA formed by disgruntled members, Don Johnson and Copeland. First Came OPT in '89, then SBI in '96...
-Run What'cha Brung
-More Horsepower, Faster boats
-Winner = last man running
-Good 'ole Boy mentality
-Come for a party, and oh ya, bring your boats.

From a viewers point? I been to both and loved both :D
But Baja daze seems close to my thoughts as well

How can you complain about hangin out drinkin in the sun with Bikini's around you while boats fast as hell fly by!

My first race I said to my friend "LIFE JUST CAN'T ANY BETTER THAN THIS"
His reply " SURE IT COULD, WE COULD BE OUT IN ONE OF THOSE BOATS! ":crazy:

If not, be patient there'll be another one along every 5.2 years.

T2x

Re: uh........
 

I thought it was pretty funny, myself...........

But then again....what/who do I know?

T2x

P.S. On second thought...I deleted it.......Because if it disappointed The Joker....... The "King of Diamonds" must have been mortified;)

======================
There were no more than 3 BIKINIS observed throughout the two days of the races at St Cloud:( :( :( (well one day racing anyway..) Don't really know what you call the Day they had a boat parade and car exhibits....

No APBA vs SBI cybermatch can be complete without mentioning good old (rest in peace) USORA.:D

I have been to a few APBA races and they are fun to watch. I went to my first SBI race at New Orleans last year. For me the ultra high horsepower supercharged big blocks they run in SBI were incredible. The exhaust note was just unreal when they came blowing by us 50 ft away at 150 mph. The APBA Supercats sound much tamer. It was true that the fastest two boats didnt finish either race the day I was there but it was great to watch. Its amazing to watch what 3000 hp can do to a 40 foot cat when they nail it comming out of a turn. The Supercats with the lower output engines just dont seem that impressive anymore. Im not saying that a Supercat is not fast. Its just not on the edge of control like the SBI boats are. There are several large cats around here with similar power to a Supercat but you only see the twin 1500 Sterling cats when SBI's in town.

To me racing is all about the equipment. The boats are the stars in my book. Racing is a great way to develop new technology that I can use later. Since APBA went to a "competition" rules model all the boats must run the same equipment and if somebody does wind up being faster the penalize them with weight. Makes for close racing but it kills development. This is why I hate Nascar. If the Chevys start to run a little faster they give the Fords a little more wing. When Dodge starts winning they let the others change the front end of the car to keep up. Where is the incentive to improve the performance if they just equalize your edge?

SBI is tops in my book. You have got to respect an organization whos top class is still unlimited.

Ron

Cardinal makes a good point......but it needs amplification. There are two issues at play...:

1. The more exotic powerplants are not as dependable as the more limited ones....and this leads to loud engines and bad racing as the boats break down early and often..... i.e. SBI's main event last year at New Orleans turned into a battle of the walking wounded with racing taking a back seat to mechanics.

2. The "spec" classes are TOO limited (pendulums swing in both directions)....... wherein narrow guidelines and "designated" engine builders remove the initiative, individuality and sex appeal associated with unique products. In some cases I am reminded of a roadside go cart track........with every vehicle identical and all of them experiencing the same empty feeling as they "peak out" at exactly the same RPM and road speed....and passers by aren't exactly lining up three deep to watch this redundancy.

So...............

The answer , IMHO, is in moderation. "Spec " engines that allow for some individual customization..... A clever crew chief who figures out a way to get more mid range punch should not be penalized...... He is making the boat more responsive and safer....and challenging the others to catch up. This is a time honored tradition in racing. We have gone overboard in an attempt to make everything equal.

Today "deck to deck racing" means that no one should ever be "beaten" and that philosophy has "dumbed down" all classes to the least common denominator......which also has become the most profitable "product" simultaneously. If someone is "beaten" then cries immediately erupt stating the winner is "cheating" ........ and that plays to divisiveness and off the race course political manipulations which continually limit excellense.

Unfortunately, today this is, increasingly, the rule in business and politics as well...... and........as the sport embraces (bends over for) corporate dollars the board room rules are taking over....... to wit marketing controls everything. Like the liberal media there is an "assumption" that the grass roots racer has to have his sport legislated to him...and controlled "for" him. This gives no credit to the true racers who will get out there and compete without being hand carried and provided a "package".........Hence the popularity of refreshing groups like "The Jersy Boyz" and the time tested GLOPBRA.

I have been criticised for my "good old days" point of view........BUT

There were fleets of over 40 (count em) Open boats at races in the "Good Old Days"......... And events like Havasu drew over 150 entries in only two classes of racing..........

.........and there wasn't a logo'd corporate golf shirt in sight.

Nuff said!

T2x........... contributing another "little essay"

Thank You Rich. Very succinct.... SBI Big motors, love 'em. APBA (could be) good competition for engine builders (and corporation's remember the SEMA Skater V-10 Offshore Duty Viper motor? ) so I have to vote for a 'review' ,of allowable technology !!!!!! on both fronts:D :D :D :D

T2x
What happened to your comment from yesterday? Too much koolaid?
Too bad I did not print it in time.

This seems like USAC (IRL) and CART. When they split they killed the racing. There is a lot of common ground i.e. indy/sarasota

Maybe they should try to unite apba and sbi. Maybe there should be a owners/racers group that would have a say in the rules. Maybe I should put down my koolaid.

pat W

I think racing should be like kids baseball. Everyone gets a trophy, and nobody wins. Why do we want to have someone win when that will then generate sad hurt feelings upon the less fortunate (loser). We must use positive reinforcement. We must not learn lessons the hard way. Innovation and hard work are archaic ideas that no longer apply to today's society. You DESERVE a trophy. In fact you are OWED a trophy. You should not have to sweat for hours and days on end in preparation under the outdoor flood lights with bugs all over for nights on end to make it to a race. This is the 21st century. You are entitled! Oh.......I thought a liberal was talking for a minute.:p ;) :D

Is Shane being controlled by Hillary Clinton or Al Gore?

"It takes a village to win an offshore race!"

T2x,what happened to your post?Did you receive some sort of subpoena ???

HEY CAN I JOIN IN THE FUN???????

WELL HERE IT GOES. I DO AGREE THAT THE SO CALLED NASCAR RULES DO NOT HELP INNOVATION AT ALL. IDOES A LITTLE BUT NOT MUCH. BUT HOW ABOUT THIS. NOBODY HAS SAID THIS YET.

HOW WOULD YOU FEEL AFTER WINNING A RACE AGAINST 30 OTHER PEOPLE THAT HAD ALMOST THE SAME SETUP THAT YOU DID THAT DAY AND YOU BEAT THEM ALL BECAUSE YOU WERE THE BETTER DRIVER/THROTTLMAN. WELL I TELL YOU HOW I FELT WHEN I BEAT 28 BOATS FOR THE WORLD TITLE IN 2000. IT FELT ****IN GREAT THAT THAT DAY .

JUST ANOTHER WAY TO LOOK AT IT PEOPLE. JUST MY OPINION.

TREADWELL

Good point and a valid case for the factory classes. However, at the end of the day the spectators (who are not related to the Factory class participants) come to see the premier class boats...and for the most part they want big, fast, competitive, loud ....AND....sexy. As much as it might mean to it's owner, a 28 foot Velocity runabout...does not fit this description.

Eric, your Factory 2 victories were hard fought, well earned and entertaining.......but where we disagree is I don't believe you can build a spectator sport out of what is basically a consumer product racing class....... Fun, challenging and exciting for the racer.....absolutely...... but not prime time material. The problem occurred, it seems to me, when the Factory classes were inflated from entry level showroom stock classes to "professional" sponsored racing efforts........

The difference...again this is only one man's opinion.....albeit a man who raced boats, built boats, and announced boats all of his life...........is that feature classes should be full race hulls, with top technology, paid drivers/throttlemen, able to perform at the highest levels, in the closest quarters, at the highest speeds.

There are people in the world of speed that others aspire to be,
Schumacher, Andretti, Seebold, Hanauer, Tomlinson, Serralles, to name a few.......... These guys are not legendery for their ability to helm a family sedan........or a Donzi. In order to reach the pantheon of racing's elite....... you keep a Donzi at your summer home's dock and a Mclaren/Ferrari/Unlimited Hydro/Skater on your race trailer.

Factory/Performance classes are stepping stones to greatness, with some great moments and performances along the way....but realistically...are not destinations in and of themselves. People want to:

See the best

In the best

Against the best

At their best.

Now that's a formula to believe in.

T2x

Unite APBA and SBI?........................... I tried that yesterday.... and it was "disappointing".......so I stopped.......;)

T2x

T2X,
VERY GOOD POINT AND I SAY I WOULD AGREE FOR THE MOST. THANK YOU FOR THE COMPLIMENT. IN A YEAR OR TWO I WILL BE IN THE SUPER SERIES. JUST NOT DONE WITH F2 JUST QUIT YET. BUT I BELIEVE I HAVE THE TALENT NOW TO MOVE FORWARD. WE WILL SEE HOPEFULLY IN THE 2005 SEASON. JUST NOT IN THE CARDS THIS YEAR OR NEXT.

TREADWELL

LET ME IN HERE. AS A VOLUNTEER(MED BOAT-PATROL BOAT-TOW BOAT)AND SPECTATOR WHO GOES TO BOTH.IM NOT A RACER NEVER HAVE BEEN.BUT BOTH PARTIES HAVE SCREWED THEMSELVES BY ARGUING & FIGHTING.HAVING WORLD RACES IN SEPARATE LOCATIONS. THEY NEED TO GET IT TOGETHER!WHAT A GREAT TIME IT WOULD BE...TO MANY POLITICIANS IN RACING.THEY NEED TO RUN FOR OFFICE WHERE THEY BELONG.

How About This???
 

We step back in time with "One Event Per Year".
Take APBA, SBI, OPA, NJOPRA, along with all the Poker Run Clubs, use the P-1 thru P-5 bracket rules, and bring back the old style offshore racing where you needed a Navigator with the Old Time Course of Miami to New York run???:confused:

Would that be sweet or what??? :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Maybe Donald Trump will even lend his race title name:

THE WAR OFFSHORE :D :D :D

77 Boats in Daytona APBA Offshore - you tell me - the pits are full of exotic race boats - BH

Good Luck Today Mike, put on a great Race! How come no web cast at the event? See Ya, Bill;)

Mike, BH & Eric,
Great job and good luck to everyone...wish I was there.
Barkley

Infantile...that should sum up the relationship between APBA and SBI.

Years ago, these two organizations use to be able to "play" together and get along like adults. The world championships were fantastic to see with more offshore competition racing in one location than anywhere else in the world! With the number of boats on the racing circuit today, a joint venture between the two organizations to put on one single World Championship event would be spectacular for the racers and the spectators!!!

We've raced in both organizations, and they both have their strong and weak points. We are back with APBA this season and it was nice to see the inspectors taking the extra time to try and assure that each boat was assigned to the appropriate class. With SBI, the inspector would look at a few things and say "go race!". I think safety is a priority with both organizations but SBI seems to be just a little careless when they put all boats in all classes out on the course at the same time for one single race. It does tend to get the adrenaline pumping though!

My thoughts for what they're worth!

Jerri Howard
Vixen Offshore Racing

:frog:

t2x right as allways, i hope the right people were listening . i thank you ought to be the boss over off shore racing ,

I wouldn't wish that job on my worst enemy................

Well, maybe my worst enemy.............;)

T2x

t2x i know you would do a better job than mr ass maybe even get reggie back in the apba