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APBA vs LLC My Opinion

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Old 04-28-2003, 10:46 AM
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Exclamation APBA vs LLC My Opinion

After reviewing what I believe is very good information from emails, and personal phone calls from Mike A.,Charlie S., Fred H., Ed H., and other members of APBA including Offshore. It is my understanding that there is a dispute over payment made or not made to APBA by APBA-Offshore LLC. and that under the provisions of the license agreement entered into by both parties that any dispute is to be settled in binding arbitration. APBA has attempted to begin this process but is being refused by the LLC. It is also my understanding that while the LLC my have helped some in the Offshore category it has alienated some also. I came into this debate with no preconceived notions and set out to gather as much information as I could before I gave an opinion. Anyone that would like to contact me personally by email or PM. I will do my best to answer any question you have of me, but I suggest you do what I have done and contact the people involved directly as they can give you the information first hand.

Thank you for your time
Matthew Barrett

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Old 04-28-2003, 12:02 PM
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So what do they say will happen if LLC doesn't pay?

From my understanding there was an ambigious term in the contract that said ALL MONIES to APBA from LLC need to exceed $200K. LLC actually paid over $350K but almost $180K was for insurance which was not intended to be part of the $200 payment. I could be off a bit on my numbers.

Sound like if LLC paid the $30K deficiency then this all goes away.

If LLC doesn't pay, what is next? An injunction from APBA to have the LLC stop using thier name???

Someone needs to compromise and soon or both LLC and APBA will be harmed. I honestly don't think the LLC will loose any boats over this. They have proven themselves and gained a following. After all who cares about UIM?
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Old 04-28-2003, 12:20 PM
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Matthew,
Just so I know. When you say "LLC may have helped some in the Offshore category it has alienated more", im sure you have spoken to these 'alienators" to get the full picture right?Or was this what the Detroit people were telling you?
Think about this.IF I fire 5 of my employees because they are falling down on the job,that could mean I have 'alienated them"---if you only ask their side of the story then thats your answer.But getting rid of deadbeats is the only way for my business to survive.So have I aleinated them?Or just made a good business decision?
APBA and LLC have a split in thinknig right now, because they just aren't on the same page.You have to remember,hobby boat racing is all about making friends,keeping everyone happy,praying you will always have enough volunteers to keep things running and never about renowned success and fame.And never thinking beyond one racing season.Never planning for the future.
On the other hand a For-profit racing is all about reaching success,notable fame,world class identity,financial rewards and above all - planned out profits that will grow to the future.
If a person,company or entity refuses to fit in with this pro-business program,or harms the program in any way- Then yes,by all means it should be alienated.All part of good business.
Also,non-payment is the gripe coming from one side of this situation.However for some reason,you completeyl left out the other side of this story.

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Old 04-28-2003, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ModMachine
Matthew,
Just so I know. When you say "LLC may have helped some in the Offshore category it has alienated more", im sure you have spoken to these 'alienators" to get the full picture right?Or was this what the Detroit people were telling you?
Think about this.IF I fire 5 of my employees because they are falling down on the job,that could mean I have 'alienated them"---if you only ask their side of the story then thats your answer.But getting rid of deadbeats is the only way for my business to survive.So have I aleinated them?Or just made a good business decision?
APBA and LLC have a split in thinknig right now, because they just aren't on the same page.You have to remember,hobby boat racing is all about making friends,keeping everyone happy,praying you will always have enough volunteers to keep things running and never about renowned success and fame.And never thinking beyond one racing season.Never planning for the future.
On the other hand a For-profit racing is all about reaching success,notable fame,world class identity,financial rewards and above all - planned out profits that will grow to the future.
If a person,company or entity refuses to fit in with this pro-business program,or harms the program in any way- Then yes,by all means it should be alienated.All part of good business.
Also,non-payment is the gripe coming from one side of this situation.However for some reason,you completeyl left out the other side of this story.
Mod,

I don't believe I left out anything as I said this is my opinion after reviewing all the information that was given to me by the above named persons. The LLC says that they don't owe anymore money to APBA for the 2002 season, APBA HQ says different hense a dispute has arrisen. The contract that was signed by both parties says that "ANY controversy, claim, or misunderstanding arising out of, or relating to this Agreement , including any alleged breach of, default, compliance with or interpretation of any terms or provisions of this agreement shall be settled by arbitration." The problem here is that Mike A. has told me that the LLC. doesn't recognize the power of Charlie Strang as Chairman of APBA even though he would be in the same position under the Sea-Tac plan. Under that plan "The Chairman shall be the exclusive authorized signatory on any contract that binds, obligates or otherwise makes liable APBA. The initial Chairman will be Charles Strang who will serve a term of 2 years." With him being the only person who name was written into any record his is the stongest position of power there is in this whole debate.

Thank you

Matthew
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Old 04-28-2003, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ron P
So what do they say will happen if LLC doesn't pay?

From my understanding there was an ambigious term in the contract that said ALL MONIES to APBA from LLC need to exceed $200K. LLC actually paid over $350K but almost $180K was for insurance which was not intended to be part of the $200 payment. I could be off a bit on my numbers.

Sound like if LLC paid the $30K deficiency then this all goes away.

If LLC doesn't pay, what is next? An injunction from APBA to have the LLC stop using thier name???

Someone needs to compromise and soon or both LLC and APBA will be harmed. I honestly don't think the LLC will loose any boats over this. They have proven themselves and gained a following. After all who cares about UIM?
Ron,

APBA has said in their news releases exactly what they intend to do. I believe they are contacting Offshore clubs nation wide and are starting to write sanctions as there are some already at http://www.apba.org/cgi-bin/RaceSchedule.php . And from my understanding insurance payments were not included in the minimum amount due APBA.

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Matthew
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Old 04-28-2003, 04:59 PM
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So I guess the real question is... who's name will be on the Marathon race? I didn't see it on the schedule as being an APBA santioned race.

Will it be called an Offshore LLC race?
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Old 04-28-2003, 05:15 PM
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That I don't know, but I was told yesterday that Daytona did not count toward Hall of Champion points, which I'm assuming then it didn't count toward APBA High points either. If you ask APBA HQ the LLC is no longer authorized to use the APBA name. Of course that means that the racers are caught in limbo and have to figure out which direction to go on their own.

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Old 04-28-2003, 05:41 PM
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I'm suprized that detroit hasn't forced the LLC to stop using the APBA name and logo already. Really, that's about all they can do. Right?

LLC has it's own race sites, insurance and rule book. Change the name and go racing! Maybe I'm missing something but what is the LLC loosing other than a $200,000 yearly payment to Detroit??? Oh and Merc's support. Gee I wonder if the Vortec deal pissed them off at all.

What is the APBA gaining? The ability to hold their own offshore races using their (old?) rule book? Which none of the boats conform to any longer? Oh and they might gain some help from Mercury.

Does the great lakes series stay with Detroit or LLC? POPRA?

I can see both sides rather clearly and agree that a divorce is needed. May both sides enjoy their new found freedom. Or if freedom is too painfull, someone needs to give in...quickly

Obviouly there is much that we don't know, but the speculation is too interesting to pass up on.

If, LLC and APBA split, will racers need to pay the LLC for yealy dues? Were the dues paid in Key West given to Detroit? Oh man the details are were the real problems lay. And what will Detroit do? Run join sanctioned races with SBI? Make the Great Lakes the National races?

Will any racers leave the LLC? I think the LLC has proven that they can provide a level playing field. Which is apperently what racers want. NO CHEATERS~!

Mike A, you keep saying that this will all be worked out shortly, but what will the final picture look like? New name and Logo for the LLC? I guess this could take years and cost millions in the courts, but I don't think the racers will have the stomach for that. I would think that by Marathon, this should be straightened out one way or the other.

This is like a train wreck, a horrible sight to see, but you can't look away for a second.

Munch munch, ......... popcorn please.
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Old 04-28-2003, 06:28 PM
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RonP
I belive your the first one to say "who needs the UIM?" I respectivly disagree.
For the past 3 years LLC has been saying how important it is to be the "ONLY" recognized program, and I agree. Without APBA/UIM, LLC is just another bunch of initals. And MA is just another promoter.
I got no gripe with LLC but with MA wanting to control the world of offshore, I saw this coming a long time ago. And what about the guys in Pacific Offshore and OPBRA as well as Great Lakes. Were do they go??
Your right...this is a fuc*in train wreck and the ones who get hurt again are the racers and the fans. This whole deal sucks!!!!

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Old 04-28-2003, 07:17 PM
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ron p and dan b how right you are so true
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