Cigarette the Legend is Dying II
 

In the June Issue of Powerboat I read an article obviously written by Cigarette stating again that the “Logo”, will make the company; a legend. They say the “Logo” is a noticeable as the “Nike” swooshes or Golden Arches? To the boating community maybe. I would bet 99% of all the Unites States doesn’t know the logo. Once again the company is more concerned with marketing the logo than quality. Cigarette says that each boat is tested and quality controlled by Skip and Neil. I can name numerous 36’s that have flipped, 38’s, and 42’s that have many cracks, imperfections, and poor gel work. I would like to see the QC reports, they don’t exist. I bet in the days of Arronow, Halter, Bing Good, and Scott Smith they have written QC’s. The quality was impeccable; the warranty was almost non existing. Cigarette has to get back back to basics, worry about building great boats, and forget T Shirts. How can the Logo be more recognizable in Europe, there is only one dealer left, Sportier. Paint will not cover imperfections. Let Neil do what he knows how to do it, let him build. No one will ever replace Arronow, ever. He is the only “Legend”, don’t make him continue to roll in his grave.

Go get'em AB !!!! Hey ... I didn't know you had a computer down at the shop ?????
HAHA

JM

One TopGun with new cables. Now we are rolling..

Yeah Baby !!!!!!!!

I'm stopping in tomorrow to see that new pretty stuff for mine.

JM

Is this topic necessary? Making a comment to a members discussion is one thing, but starting this thread is for only one reason. If YOU own one and have problems, then let us know. But to start this thread because you don't like the marketing strategy is empty.

In the new June Robb Report, in the "Best of the Best" Edition..........


The $896,214 Ciragette 46 Rider XP is the production model of the concept "Stealth" (notice no "rough" in the name). With an upgrade for $1,131,598....you get 550HP Mercury SCI's or 1,040HP Sterlings.


Rediculous pricing!

This is an open forum. I agree with Too Old's reply. You need to back up your marketing.

CIG_3,

This soo ridiculous. You've tried this before. How can you have the Cigarette avatar and bash the name?? What did they do to you? Your not doing anything but trying to ruin a great boat company's name and Skip and Neil's reputation.

Go buy Skip and Neil out if you can do it better. It's their company, not yours. They don't tell you how to run your business on here.
Hey guess what, lots of boats have flipped before! Your not bashing them because Cigarette is the easiest one to attack. Aronow built more than just Cigarette, are their legends dying too?

This is going to turn into the Eickert thread. Lets not turn this into an "I heard this, you heard that" situation.

Out of thousands of boats that have been sold since the 60's. There are going to be a few that have some defects.
I happen to own an Aronow original and a new one. Both are equally as tough. No cracks, no flaws on either one. Cigarette builds a great boat, period.

Thats right, "The best of the best!" :D :D

I thought the comments about improving the brand awareness were mis-placed. That kind of talk is for the board room not the press. Brand awareness comes from proper marketing and allowing the public to propigate the awareness. I think releasing this information to the public was un-necessary.

What I got out of the article was they were going to spend more money on marketing than racing this year. Thats poor planning to release this to the public. For a company to say they were going to make more t-shirts than invest in there racing (ie:R&D) is just plain stupid. It sound like they like running there mouths.

I agree, seems the marketing concept is placed on the brand not the quality. Perhaps the quality is there but Cig seems to thing the brand name and logo can increase their sales through marketing this brand recognition/logo. This is a smart thing to do as long as the quality is there. If it is not, the new customers they get will not return. Thats is not their goal...obviously.
Its a smart concept. To compare...sea ray touts a lifestyle as well as their quality. They are undeniably the most recognized name in boating....not just because they make boats in ALL price ranges.
.02
cig will be fine if the quality is there

The guy bought the Company anyone else have problems with the way he runs it, I'm sure he would look at any legitimate offers any one can muster up(the old money where your mouth his)... Outside of this Monday morning quarterbacking is worth the price paid for that advice. He owns it and *****n about what he does with it is a waist of time with no productive consequence.

I own my business but I do listen to what the customers have to say. Wether I agree or not is up to me. I say go ahead and tell me how to run my business it might just make the business better for it.

Many of the items on the list of what's "It", are not exactly the Timexes of their fields. Ferrari's won't go 20,000 miles without a breakdown if you don't spend 4 or 5 thousand dollars a year to keep them up. Many Rolexes don't keep that good a time. Harley's used to leak oil like crazy. Walther PPK's jam. It is not necessary to be perfect to be "It".

As regards the brand identity, I used to smuggle Cigarette and Magnum jackets into Italy. You could trade either one for ANYTHING you want. You can spend anything you want, win every race, (look at Cougar and Skater), wear gold chains and say that you are the greatest, but you ain't ever gonna be CIGARETTE.

I still say that Skip and Neill are two of the best intentioned owners in the business, but I've only been in it for 52 years.

Racing costs money and is a profit eater...the new Cigs can't compete with all the other boats and their factory support...$kip's in this for the money and has spent big dollars on a new building and the apparel line.
BTW...which is the most ever spent on it since Aronow owned it.
I was shocked to see the marketing strategy of the new Cigarette printed in PB.
They are going into the Poker Run and PaceBoat business ..its much easier to make good there.
Its a shame the legendary name is now up for whore out.
I love Cigarette second to Fountain and hope that which ever way it ends up its a good one for the Brand.:(

As for "the Legend is dying thing"
 

All this theoretical diatribe is one thing but I will relate a few things that have happened since I started using my Cigarette on the lake up here four weeks ago. Now bear in mind it is everyday America not the launch at Havasu, LOTO, South California or Southern Florida;

There are roughly 15 Fountains, 25 Baja's, multiple, Scarabs, Velocities and Sunstation that hang around the Lake at one point or another. There is as far as I know 1 Cigarette, someone told me there was another one but in the 15 years I have been on the lake maybe some have gone thru but none hangs around on a weekly bases.

From boat owners:
When I am at the launch I have had a "Bunch" of people come up to me that own those Fountains, Scarabs, Baja's... and say "Wow a Cigarette we don't see many of those", or "man I wish I could afford one of those" and just stand in awe over there. I am a very approachable fellow and will let anyone who owns a boat have a look at mine within reason and they always walk away with envy in their eyes. Again I am not a prude and will definitely look at other nice rigs but the Cig always get's most of the peoples attention. And my rig is only a 1994 35' Cafe Racer. A lot of them can leave me in the dust on the lake, all those Fountains run faster than my 67 MPH but they are still the ones coming up to me.

From non-boat owners:
We were out on the town last Friday night and "Murph" a friend of hers came up to her and said Tom Powers was in here the other day saying he saw you guys at the ramp by the Park and couldn't stop talking about your boat. "K-lee's boat this" and "K-Lee's boat that" then Murph says something very indicative of the Cig mystic he says "Man, Tom had such a hard on I couldn't figure it out... It's not like it says Cigarette on the side of it!" K-Lee looks at him and says "It does say Cigarette on the side of ours" Then the guy vapor locked wanting a ride and all (which we obliged on Saturday) At least another 5 or 6 acquaintances have come up to me in restaurants and bars with the same kind of "disbelief" look in there eyes from seeing us go by on the lake with an actual "Cigarette" boat.

I had a Fountain for 5 years and it drew people but not the same way the Cigarette does, it seems that the fact of having this kind of exclusivity and the "original" thing stires up people. I did not get the thing for attention I chose it for the ride and space compared to the Fountain's I had been shopping around for, it seemed more receptive to the family boating I do, the other parameters were the money, it was more expensive than a Fountain but you only know how much it costs once you sell it!!! It is definitely slower then the Fountain and they are both just as tough and well built but the "Legend" is different.

Anyway Cig_3 if you think the Legend is dying it's your opinion for me I which my father would of died like that then I could talk to him every day!!!

If I remember correctly the new owner of Cigarette said the boats are great but the "Brand Name Cigarette" is where the money is and that is why he Purchased the Company. He believed with proper marketing he could make a great return on his investment. Lets hope they do make a ton of cash on marketing apparel and accessories, I would think in the end some of the monies would be reinvested into the company and the boats would reap the benefits.


Jan

That's for bloody sure on the investment perspective... in the immortal words of Frank Zappa "dont'cha know ya' can make more money as a butcher?" My hats off to those guys or anyone who is willing to put it on the line like that financially.

Why does Cigarette invoke that kind of response? It's machismo, history, the "sport" of offshoreracing, Aronows death and not to mention the more illicit side...drugs/women the "lure of the easy money" etc, etc rolled up in a reasonably packaged and marketable medium. The average consumer still equates fast boats with "is that a cigarette?" just like a tissue being a Kleenex, a photocopy being a Xerox...

Successful companies change with the times and it appears the marketing is going that way...the winners are the guys that stay in business and remain reasonably profitable.

As much as I like to see Cigarette racing again I have to admit that Skip and Neil are doing a great job. The quality of the boats is at its best EVER right now.

Me too...

You got that right :cool:

Hi G how are you?

Next one's a gun

Why do some always say "their just selling T-Shirts" Ever think the marketing is to sell boats? Why not have some apparel to dress your girl in while boating too?

If any of you know Skip, he doesn't need the money, trust me. He wants to get this company going again after so many previous owners nearly ruined it.

Nobody seems to say much about the 90's when Cig was MAYBE building 20 boats a year. They barely had enough money to operate. You never saw ad's in any magazines hardly. People sued constantly because their boats were never finished. There were so many times in the 90's when I'd stop by and the gates were locked. You call that good marketing? Was that supporting the legend? THAT is when the legend was DEAD.

Skip and Neil are building over 80 top quality boats a year now. They have more employees than ever before. It finally looks like a factory again, not a parking lot.

So, they are back in the saddle now. All anyone can find now to gripe about now is "waa, the factories dirty, boo hoo, theres dust on the floor." They are busy building your next boat, not doing housework. Thats the way I want it. Maybe they could hire a maid or something, but I want Neil and Skip concentrating on the product, which they are.

And hey, if you can make some extra money on the clothing, why not? Lots of my friends that don't have Cigarettes say "Man my wife won't wear our brands clothes, she wants Cigarette stuff." There is nothing wrong with that.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::Dhttp://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/i...ons/icon14.gif

Me too brother,

I wish we had a few on the circuit right now too. There will be though. "Lynch Mob" will be back. We all know Tres isn't finished. And don't count Philly out, he's gettin the itch.

What sucks is that "Rio Roses" is obsolete now with the new changes to super vee.

There will be Cig's racing in the future. That company was absolutely "rock bottom" when Skip bought it. He's getting the books straight now, upping production, and most importantly selling and marketing to his foundation, us.

When he gets everything going just right, they are doin a race boat. I heard it from the horses mouth. It WILL be the one to beat. I can't wait! :D

I don't own a CIG, But wish I did, and hope to one day. I have to jump in here for just 1 minute. Has anyone ever been to a Nascar race? I have and I can tell you this, Stand in line buddy! EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE is standing in line buying everything from T-shirts to hats. There is big money$$$ in them there pockets. I'm sure the money will be funneled back in the company, and if not someone else will buy it.

Now if anyone wants to offer me a ride in a REAL CIG!:D

Excellent point CAP. If you get lost in OKlahoma sometime, I'll give you a ride and a beer!

I have an old Cigarette. I'd buy a new Cigarette tomorrow.;) [/B][/QUOTE]

Pretty much sums it up...................:D

I get so tired of Outer limits and Apache getting all the credit of making a well made boat. I would put a Cig up against both! People are so fast to cut a Cig down.

Hey Zoom !!

Everthing is a lot better now that I am back on the water.

Lovin' Life ;)

and boy this is just terrible rigging too :D :D

.

Anytime your up my way buddy!

Your right Fever Mike
http://www.cigaretteracing.com/image...cs/Ocean_4.jpg

Oh, you mean there are other brands besides Cigarette??? Hmm.... I wanted and offshore boat and went looking for a Cigarette. Seriously, I am glad that the company is marketing products to support the brand. I own a 2001 Top Gun t/s and although I am around faster boats, I never have regretted the purchase. I will say that the company does need to be mindful of warranty issues if they ever come up. High end boats are assumed to have a certain level of customer service built in. As far as racing goes....."what wins on sunday, sells on monday" is not really applicable to offshore boats.

I did cash

Isn't every boat a Cigarette at heart?

I like Cig's as much as the next guy but would not buy a new one. I would not buy a product from a company that is so arrogant that they advertise that there number one priority is T-shirt sales and product recognition.
If you are going to tell me to my face that you are more concerned with a profit than providing a quality product and stand behind that product, I say let some other sucker had you their cash. I will spend my money where I will get the most for my money. I'll spend my money with a company that has built a reputation over time because of the quality of their product and will not pay extra to have a logo. If either the quality is not there or there are other companies that offer the same quality for less money, that's where I'm going.
I have no problem with them trying to sell T-shirts and other marketing merchandise to increase the bottom line. In fact I believe there are companies out there that are missing out on profits that don't offer these items, but I believe you make money on the little things that have high profit margins because of the quality of the core product that you produce.
I know my opinion is only worth as much as the next guys, and my opinion is that the new owners of Cigarette are about to make the same mistake that I have seen many previously successful business owners make. They are putting there own instant gratification ahead of the companies best interest because they believe they have paid their dues elsewhere and want to turn a quick buck.
If the current mentality does not change there will be one of two results. The current owners will make a fast return on their investment selling enough T-shirts and over priced boats and get out, leaving the new owners to deal with the repercussions. The second is the product quality will suffer and the Cigarette name will slowly lose its appeal.
Again in my opinion, the current owners are going to take one of the best names in offshore boats and turn the faithfull away in return for the mass sales for a short period of time.
You don't continue to be one of the best names in offshore boats if you don't build one of the best damn boats out there with a price and service to back it up.

As I've always said, Cig is the Gold Standard of offshore boats. All boats sooner or later are measured against it. For instance, a boat may be:
1. Not as good as a Cig
2. Almost as good as a Cig
3. As good as a Cig
4. Better than a Cig

When's the last time you heard someone say, "it's as good as a___________ "(fill in the blank).

As far as the main plan is to sell T shirts, that's not what I think they are saying. If I had a product that I knew I could generate extra income from by selling by products of it, I'd be a fricking idiot not to take advantage of that fact. I am reasonably sure they aren't taking their top technicians off the line and making them silk screen t-shirts!

Oh, and by the way, if the legend is dying, would someone please send me one of those corpses? And if that is dying, sure looks like heaven to me!