Question for Hot Duck
 

What about the 45 Apache from Hawk Power? How is that going?

KABOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have to go to Ft. Lauderdale next week, so on the way home I will either go to Blountstown to pick it up or have Todd meet me in Jacksonville. Finally! I should be home with it a week from this Saturday.

We were planning to have it delivered to the APBA race in Savannah, but Bill and I could not get away from Ocean City over the 4th of July weekend. We were packed and ready to go, but just could not get away. With the water conditions they had there on Sunday, it would have been a great race for our Gladiator. Oh well, there will be other events.

I will post some pics of the Apache when we get home.

Saw the boat (45' Apache) today, no engines in the back. It was sitting off of Hwy 20 in Blountstown, in front of a daycare.

That is Hawk Power. Todd leases the front of that building to the daycare. The building behind that one is where the actual shop is.

I left the boat there to have the engines rebuilt. That was 3 months ago! At the time (April), everybody around here was too busy to do the rebuilds, so I left it there because Todd said that he could start it right away. Also, before I left it there I asked this board about Hawk Power and did not get any negative responses on the company. The only responses I got were some concerns about the boat. :(

Anyhow, I am going to make the best of what may become a bad situation. I am very concerned to hear all of these horror stories now. Believe me that my a** will be covered with all the necessary paperwork and that the engines will be yanked and run on the dyno as soon as we get it home.

It makes me very nervous to hear that he is selling the molds. If there is anybody in the Blountstown area, please keep an eye on my boat. I will be down there to pick it up next week. Todd claims that it will finally be finished. I hope so, but finished or not, it is coming home.

Hot Duck
 

I sincerely hope you come out of this ok:fish: :fish:

is that a bubble bursting
 

or a house of cards????????????:frog: :frog:

45' Apache
 

I have some suggestions regarding getting your boat before the work is complete. Another customer from Missouri took his boat and unfinished engines. Now he is having a very hard time getting criminal charges filed. He is pursuing it civilly, but that is costly when you have already lost money. Contact Ken Futch at the Calhoun County Sheriffs office, 850-674-5049. He is the investigator and will help and advise you. The same engine man is there that has been there since todd started building these in January 2003. An engine man is only as good as the parts you can afford to go in the engine, if you get my point. he has not fired him or replaced him. That was another of his many many lies. (like having a dino that works)

If I were you I would tell him to stop and just go get your stuff. I think you will come out cheaper in the long run.

Your boat is awesome!

Chick Racer

chick racer
 

It seems like you have a lot of in depth knowledge and probably some information to impart to the rest of us. What was/is your involvement with Cimmino? Buckk:fish: :fish:

Unfortunately so
 

I am just another of his many victims. I have no involvement with him anymore. Todd is a con man and a very good one. I hate to see innocent, trusting people taken in. There is nothing he won't do, no one he won't use. I will do what I can to help, without putting myself in jeopardy. Understand, this was business dealing, not personal. I don't want to come off as a "slighted woman." My dealings with the authorities has been disappointing. fraud is a very hard thing to prove.

Chick racer

Well Said
 

The group at OSO can supply enough information and collaboration to put this guy away. Years of cons and fraud will show a trait that a prosecutor may take a shot at this guy. Buckk:frog: :frog:

Chickracer : Thank you for the info and the compliment on the boat. I think that I am lucky because I have not paid for the engine work yet. Obviously, I had to own the boat before making any changes, so that deal is done. I purchased the boat and have the bill of sale and title for it.

Once the actual sale was done, I left it there to get the engines rebuilt. I thought that it would be a cheap insurance policy against having engine problems over the summer. Besides, Todd offered a warranty with the rebuilt engines. It sounded good at the time and I did not have any bad news about the company when I left the boat there.

I hope that all comes out OK. I will certainly let you all know either way. As I have said on the board before, I personally have no reason not to trust Todd, but all of these stories are really making me start to wonder. I asked Todd about them and why he has not replied. He simply said that he has better things to do with his time. Maybe so, but a lot of damage is being done to the reputation of both Todd and his company. If my results with him are good then I will certainly say that, but if my results are bad I will tell you guys that too.

I hope that it all works out HD

How true !

Folks .... there is a reoccuring theme here that is really unfortunate !!! Hate to say this about anyone , but I wouldn't buy a pair of shoes from these guys just from what I've heard !!!

Even if the stories aren't all true ... ANYTHING that would make me think twice about a shop will keep me away.

JM

AS you can see I'm a new member to OSO. I surf this site a lot and its a great resource for info.

Unfortunately before I got involved with this company I didnt ask for advise from the OSO members. Otherwsie I could have saved alot of $$$$.

Looking at the last date posted here I'm guessing this may be a dead issue to most. But I'll ask any way.

Does any one have anything new to report on Todd ? Is he still operating at Hawk Power ? When was the last time anyone has any contact with him personally ?

$7000 later, and can't get him to return phone calls, faxes, or email. (In fact my email bounces back). His secretary tells me he can't come to the phone or he is out at the moment.

I have heard rumors he is working at a few different places but have nothing factual to go on. Can anyone confirm ?

Any advise or help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

This thread will be of much interest to you

link to thread

I agree. Check out that link and it will pretty well explain everything. In case you missed it on that thread, here is the post explaining my last dealing with Todd and Hawk Power...........


The Following Was Copied From The Hawk Power Thread And Was Originally Posted In Late August


Hey guys. I am not someone to bad mouth somebody, but since you asked, I'll just tell you my story and you can make your own judgment.

We went to pick up the Apache at Hawk Power a few weeks ago. It was supposed to be ready, but it was not. The engines were not in the boat and none of the other minor things we wanted changed were touched. To top it off, the boat was absolutely filthy and covered with a light mist of paint over spray.

To make a long story short, I decided that the boat was leaving there that day, no matter what. Todd was in and out of the shop running errands so my race partner and I grabbed two of the guys in the shop and bolted the engines in just so that we could transport the boat. We collected all of our miscellaneous parts, wrapped them in blankets and rolled out.

We moved the boat to Tres @ Martin Marine. His guys pulled the engines and yanked off the 3 speed trannies that Todd tried to put in there. We ordered a pair of Huber 1350's to replace Todd's trannies, which is what Todd was supposed to use in the first place according to our sales contract. The engines were then sent to Carolina Racing to be checked out.

Initially, the crew @ Carolina racing was just going to run the engines on a dyno and do some basic testing to see what kind of shape the engines were in. I also asked them to pull the valve covers and oil pans to visually inspect the engines. After doing this, we decided it was safer for the engines not to put them on the dyno. Hawk Power did rebuild the engines (new bearings and a new crank were found), but they cut as many corners as possible and used some questionable parts, as far as quality goes. Here is a list of what we found. The valve springs were rusty, the new crank was a piece of sh*t, the head work consisted of a simple glass beading, the block needed to be bored due to minor pits and imperfections in the cylinder walls, the oil cooler installed was entirely too small, the ignition installed was out of a car and not a marine ignition, the intercooler had bent fins and was corroded inside, the water plumbing on the engine was not correct, the carbs had not been rebuilt as we had asked, etc...

Oh yea, one other thing. Todd had moved the engine mounts forward so that he could stick his trannies in there, but then some of the engine accessories would not fit because of the bulkhead. Also, because the engines were moved forward, the engine hatch would not fit b/c the carbs would not fit up into the air scoops. CRAZY!!! When we put the engines in to move it out of Hawk Power, we had to remove the accessories on the front of the engines so that we could bolt them in place. Then we had to remove the front carb on each engine to bolt on the engine hatch. Unbelievable.

Anyhow, the boat is coming along really well at Martin. Tres has a detailer to remove the over spray. Most of it can be done using clay bricks. This is a job on a 45' boat. Everything, I mean EVERYTHING needs to be bricked to remove the over spray...top deck, hull sides, dash, gages, interior, transom, drives, tabs...etc.....not to mention the trailer. The engines are coming along at Carolina Racing. They should begin the rebuild process in the next few days. Basically, we are trashing all of the old parts and building the engines correctly. The crew at Martin is going to clean up the engine room and repaint it if necessary. They are also going to do a few other odds and ends.

So, when I finally get the boat back on the water, it will be right. It does, however, look like the paint job and cabin will have to wait a while. No big deal. I would rather do it right while we are doing it than have to come back to fix problems later.

To sum up this whole bit*h session that I just wrote, Hawk Power butchered the boat. The boat was in better shape when I left it there than when I picked it up. On the bright side, the boat is in good hands now and is coming along pretty well. I'll keep you all posted on the progress.

Now for the update. The boat is looking great. Tres and his crew gutted the engine room, filled and glassed the extra holes that Todd had drilled, sanded the entire room to perfection and then laid down a fresh coat of paint. They have since put everything back into place and the engine room is ready.

The engines are still in rehab at Carolina Racing. We decided to trash all of Todd's crap and start fresh. The blocks are being machined back to perfection. The heads are being machined and rebuilt with brand new components. The cranks, cams, bearings, pistons, intercoolers, oil coolers, tranny coolers, ignitions, etc... are all being replaced with brand new parts. The carbs and blowers are being torn down and completely refurbished and rebuilt. All of the home made accessory brackets that Todd made are being replaced. And to top it off, the engines are going to be dressed up with some cosmetic items to make them look good again (ie..nice flame arrestors, valve covers, stainless lines, braided hoses, etc...).

Back to the boat itself. Tres had a detailer come in and remove all of the paint overspray. This job alone took the better part of 4 days. As I mentioned before, there was paint overspray on EVERYTHING! Luckily, the overspray came off of everything, including the cockpit interior. Now the boat is nice and clean again.

As for other changes, they are just minor things for now. We are adding a gps/chart plotter to to the dash, adding/rearranging some gages, installing an auto halon system, repairing some chips and dings and changing a few other small odds and ends.

The next major project surrounding the boat will be the rehab/replacement of the trailer. I am hoping to rehab the current trailer rather than replace it because it has the potential to be a really nice setup. It is a tandem dually with boxes, a fresh water tank, a wash down/flush system and a fuel tank for a generator. As long as the trailer is structurally sound, we are good to go.

After the trailer is done, we will turn back to the boat. The next steps will be a cabin and a paint job. This will definitely be at the end of next season, at the earliest. Right now there is only a small cushion directly under the dash and the rest of the bow is empty. I think that a cabin similar to the "cover girl" cabin offered by Cigarette would fit the need perfectly. As for the paint, right now the graphics are 100% vinyl. Some days I like it and other days it looks too busy to me. At least the option is there to peel it all off and go plain white until we can paint it. We'll see.

Overall, the project is coming along pretty well, now that the boat is in good hands at Martin Marine. Judging by the way that the work has gone so far, there is no doubt that the boat will be back at Martin when it comes time for the rest of the work. For now, I just can't wait to get the engines back so that we can run it. Every day we get a little closer!

Tres has a few pictures of the project on his web site. The ones there right now were taken when the boat first came to his shop. There will be updated pics added to the site in the next few days. If you want to check them out, click the link below and then click on "projects." It is the 45 Apache. As always, thanks for the interest and I will certainly keep you all posted as we make progress.

Will

Martin Rigging

It really sucks that you had to get tangled up with that thief but when all is said and done you are going to have a SWEET boat. You don't have to worry about running into someone on the water with the same boat, that's for sure!!

I think the graphics look good from the pictures but it is hard to get an idea without seeing it in person. Good luck on the rest of the project, at least you can sleep at night knowing it is in good hands now!!!

i looked at that boat last year in February before Todd got ahold of it. Get rid of the vinyl. there was alot of potential there, but my motivation was to go the nostalgic route. i kicked myself on the back side for not following my intuitions but at the time i just had way to much on my plate. i will be following your progress with much interest in the final results.

Dave Hughes
later

Is it worth it to spend MORE money, and MORE time filing suit and trying to get my money back ? Or do I just take my lumps walk away ? Some of you have listed contact info for local and state authorities. Did they offer any assistance ?

When was the last sighting of Cimmino ?
Anybody ? I tried calling him yesterday and the phone is disconnected now. I know, I know,.....Huge surprise.

Glad to hear your on the road to recovery with yours Hot Duck Looking forward to hearing your back in the water....
thanks for the insight everybody

No Wake Zone: I have decided that it is not worth the time or money to go after him alone. I think that I am one of the lucky ones because he took me for less than half of what he stole from you. The crazy thing is that, compared to others, you and I both made out pretty well. I would, however, like to see this man stopped for good. I think that it would take a large number of us together to get anything done. Besides, if he is really out of business, what is left to get from him? I think that all we could hope for is the satisfaction of putting him out of business for good and/or jail time. That would suffice for me, just knowing that he would not be screwing anybody ever again.

As for your situation, I would say that your best hope is to go down there and meet with him face to face to get either your money or the parts and stuff that he owes you. I definitely would not go alone. Take a witness with you that will hear or, better yet, video tape the whole conversation. :D Just remember, above all, do not loose your patience with him and go off the deep end. Believe me, I know that it will be hard to do because I had to bite my tongue and suck it up when I went to get my boat. I personally think that is the only way that you will ever be able to speak with Todd. Just like he did with me, he will never come to the phone because he is always "out running errands" or just "not in right now."

Good luck and please keep us posted.

Clearcut3/Later: The top picture here is what the boat looks like now with the vinyl graphics. The bottom picture is a quick photoshop hack job to see what the boat could look like plain white. The name has not been decided, but I wanted to put something there to see what it would look like. Oh yea, in case you are wondering why the trailer looks too short, the drive guard is not on in this picture. This was taken just after we pulled it out of the water.

Or how about in plain white. Kinda reminds me of Lucy's boat now.

Or, how about plain white with the name and number, but on a gooseneck. Oh yea, with the straps and drive guard back on too. :D Boy, it may be quick and crude, but photoshop sure is fun! :D :p :D

I like the white. I always like the old "Warrior" boat. All white with just a name on the side. Good luck with it!!

I like the Outlaw Part, Looks great ... good luck

All white boats look great. The picture of it solid white with the Apache logo at the back looks really good. Then you could add a big arrow or warrior head later if you wanted. All white NEVER goes out of style IMO.

some where i have pictures of that boat when it was all white with a white and teal interior and a teal apache head on the side kind of simuliar to the head now. it looked alot better in IMHO but then i dont care for red or yellow.

I did lots of homework on this boat before I bought it. I have pictures of it pretty much throughout it's life. Here is the all white with teal that you are referring to.

Here is the old dash. I really like the white seats better than the red, but for now they will have to stay red. Maybe they will go back to white when we paint it. We'll see.

Here is the interior now. Exactly the same, but in red and yellow.

Here it is as Kid Apache.

As Spirit of Houston.

As RDS Racing Team

RDS again. Note the exhaust has changed. No longer out the top of the engine hatches.

Here it is back as Kid Apache with the headers sticking up through the engine hatches.

One last as Kid Apache.

I think that RDS was the first to ever register the boat. The title search only goes back to them. It showed "Reliable Data Services" as the first owners. Maybe this is because the boat was used strictly for racing before then. Not sure. Anyhow, it has changed hands quite a few times, but it has hopefully found a long term home now.