Like Tree0Likes

Hull Design, Power, Outdrives, and SPEED!

Reply
Old 09-10-2003, 10:44 PM
  #1
FOUNDER and BG1
Charter Member
Thread Starter
 
Jeffrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Newport Beach, CA
My Boats: Twin Step 42 Tiger
Posts: 347
Default Hull Design, Power, Outdrives, and SPEED!

I was thinking about how far we have come in the past decade in terms of hull design/efficiency, power, outdrives, setup and our ultimate quest for higher speeds.

If you think back a decade or so it was all about the Bravo drive and the 454 Magnum. Going 65 was pretty impressive. Going 70 was awesome and going 80 was almost unheard of in a pleasure boat.

The older Cigarette Top Guns and Cafe Racers would tool around at 67-68mph. That was it. And it was (seemingly) enough at the time. Then came Reggie Fountain and his fast hulls. We all know that he did not invent the step hull but he sure did bring it to the forefront!

Fast forward to today. The hulls and "stock" power are pushing boats to incredible speeds. If you are a boat manufacturer and your step hull 38 does not go at least 75mph you might as well not build it. If it goes 80 you start to brag. If it goes almost 90 you're in a class by yourself!

A decade ago 90+mph was reserved for big Apaches with Speedmaster drives and twin 1000HP C&G motors. There were no TRS or Bravo laden boats running around at speeds in the 70's. The early Bravos simply could not handle the power.

So it begs the question ...

Where do we go from here? Is there a limit? How fast do we go before "fast" becomes too fast?

Some of today's newer boats with highly efficient hulls and "stock" Mercury 575SC motors are running at speeds in the mid-90's. That is awesome! The older boats - with the same power - would have been lucky to achieve 80. I don't even think a straight hull older Top Gun could reach 80 with this horsepower. Add a little more horsepower like they did to a 2003 Top Gun TS in a recent Powerboat Magazine article and you had a boat running almost 106mph with Bravo XR drives!

My concern is our own limits as "pleasure boaters." 99% of us are comfortable running around at 80 or even 90mph. But I have to admit ... it takes some serious cajones to run around in an open deep vee boat with no canopies, helmets, or safety gear at 100, 110, or even 120 where some of the faster Outerlimits live.

Where is the limit? I have been 103mph in DMAN's Top Gun hanging on in the back and - despite DMAN's extremely high skill level and competancy - would not have wanted to go much faster. Don't get me wrong - the ride was straight as an arrow and smooth as can be. But it didn't take a genius to figure out that one errant wave (which there are many in the Pacific ocean) would have made for one BAD day.

I know the boys with the Outerlimits like to run in the 110-120 range and frankly ... I'm not sure I want to be in the boat when they do so. Alot can happen - and happen fast - at that speed.

I guess my question to all of you - more out of curiousity than anything - is where all of you think the limit is? Are we there? Is there more room to go? How fast is fast enough in a deep vee? Hmmmmmm ...
Jeffrey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2003, 08:16 AM
  #2
Charter Member #232
Charter Member
 
Audiofn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Carlisle, MA USA
My Boats: 1979 Formula 302, 99 Formula 353, 81 Donzi 18 2+3 with 454
Posts: 18,379
Default

How good is the driver is I guess the maine question. I would certainly rather be a passenger in a boat with D-man at the wheel goin 100 then me at the wheel going 100. He has more experience driving at that speed. When in Havasue with you all I drove Rick32's boat at the 80's so that he could see how it road when he was not in it. That was the max of my comfort level with that boat. If I had never driven a hydrostream before hand I would not have been comfortable even at that level as the boat seemed very loose to me. I also drove John Azzatories Top Gun down in Miami in the high 80's as I recal and that boat was fine at that speed. It still however goes back to the drivers ability to react when the unexpected happens. Some are just better then others. Yes different hulls will allow for you to go faster with more comfort, but when something wrong happens it is the drivers ability to make the boat ok again that really counts at these speeds. I can look back at a few tragedies that we have read about on the board to show were the driver made a mistake and drove over thier abilities.

Jon
__________________
Put your best foot forward!
Audiofn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2003, 08:31 AM
  #3
VIP Member
VIP Member
 
OldSchool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Florida
My Boats: Cigarette CC and Boston Whaler currently
Posts: 10,094
Default

Great thread, Jeffrey! This one should provide some interesting reading. I can certainly remember when a 75 mph boat was the coolest thing on the river, now it's just the norm I don't have a whole lot to contribute, except for this:

It's time for boat dealers and/or manufacturers to step up to the plate and educate people before they sell them these 80-130 mph boats. If this doesn't happen more, our insurance rates are going to limit our "hobby" to the extremely wealthy. What a great job it would be for someone to take people out and give them 3 or 4 hours of seat time and teach them how to react to different situations in their new boat.


Craig

Last edited by craig223; 09-11-2003 at 08:35 AM.
OldSchool is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2003, 08:32 AM
  #4
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Myrtle Beach SC
My Boats: 2017 Pioneer 180 Islander Merc 115 pro xs ct
Posts: 561
Default

I would think that for the average boater, one without race experience but who has owned a few boats before, and is not a beginner we are at the limit right now. I actually think that some of these boats are more than the average person should be handling.
Gary C is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2003, 08:46 AM
  #5
VIP Member
VIP Member
 
OldSchool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Florida
My Boats: Cigarette CC and Boston Whaler currently
Posts: 10,094
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Troutly
I agree that we are going to see some major changes in the not to distant years to come in regards to this.

But, I will also ask this.....how many dealers out there selling performance boats have someone on their sales staff qualified to teach this?? Not many.

That is true, but what I'm saying is couldn't someone be like a contractor or surveyor is and the dealer or buyer pay a fee for the instruction. hmmmm, I've got 7 and a half years until retirement.
OldSchool is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2003, 09:04 AM
  #6
VIP Member
VIP Member
 
OldSchool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Florida
My Boats: Cigarette CC and Boston Whaler currently
Posts: 10,094
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Troutly
Well, there ya go! Time to get trained up, certified, and insured. Oh wait, who it going to train you, what governing body is going to certify you, and which company will insure you?? Better get on the stick......ya got 7.5 years to figure it out

LMAO logistics suck...another one of my great ideas goes down the crapper
OldSchool is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2003, 09:17 AM
  #7
Charter Member #232
Charter Member
 
Audiofn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Carlisle, MA USA
My Boats: 1979 Formula 302, 99 Formula 353, 81 Donzi 18 2+3 with 454
Posts: 18,379
Default

I agree with Craige about the dealers at leaste giving SOME instruction to new boat owners. Hell I would LOVE to have a job like that. Even if it was a weekend thing were they told the owners that they will go out for a couple hours on the weekend what ever. I was talking to a guy last year about his Twin Step hull and he had NO IDEA that he was not sapposed to trim the drives in in a turn. So he asked me to go out with him and I showed him the difference and he thanked me, I got to burn up some of his gas and we both had a great time. He is a safer boater I hope because of it. The dealer just handed over the keys to this guy and said have a nice day. So he and I spent some time going over taking care of his new ride. I feel that is the DEALERS RESPONSIBILITY to teach the new owners SAFE OPERATION. Unfortunatly at these speeds we do not know we are over the limit tell it is too late and the cost of that lesson can be HUGE.

Troutly the Doghnuts will still be there after 8:00, no need to drive 100 to get there
__________________
Put your best foot forward!
Audiofn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2003, 09:22 AM
  #8
Registered
 
BURNSMAZZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: ann arbor mi
My Boats: 1998 BAJA 33 OUTLAW 13ft Whaler with a 40
Posts: 533
Default

I would agree that there should be some kind of training when you buy a boat,and I'm talking any boat.There are a lot of people on the water these days and you can tell that they really don't have a clue as to what the hell they are doing and to what is going on around them,and when you put them behind the wheel of a 85mph missle with a couple of pops down there necks it makes it that much worse.I always see people not paying attention to where they're going,not looking behind them before cut across another boats path,I'm really surprised we don't have more accidents.
BURNSMAZZ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2003, 09:28 AM
  #9
Forum Regulator
VIP Member
Trade Score: (1)
 
Sydwayz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Worldwide
My Boats: 17' Speedliner Cat & O.P.B.
Posts: 21,920
Default

Craig; " You can do it!!!!!" (Think cajun from Waterboy)

Only problem is, all the time it would take to sign the legal disclamers before the course would take longer than the course itself.

Sydwayz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2003, 09:34 AM
  #10
Charter Member #232
Charter Member
 
Audiofn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Carlisle, MA USA
My Boats: 1979 Formula 302, 99 Formula 353, 81 Donzi 18 2+3 with 454
Posts: 18,379
Default

Are they ever?
__________________
Put your best foot forward!
Audiofn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
SHARKEY-IMAGES
General Boating Discussion
210
01-19-2013 04:48 PM
bcarpman
General Q & A
22
02-12-2007 10:40 AM
mpally
Baja
2
09-24-2005 10:27 AM
PhantomChaos
General Boating Discussion
7
09-24-2002 09:37 AM
candyman35
Active Thunder
3
01-25-2002 08:24 PM



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:46 AM.


Copyright 2011 OffShoreOnly. All rights reserved.