Ot: Concealed Guns...What are your thoughts
 

Missouri just passed a law that enables residents to legally carry concealed guns. What are all your thoughts on this. it has been a pretty touchy subject here.

Just think how much the street crime will drop there.

Thug wouldn't know who is carrying.

My opinion, as a gun carrier and also as a cop, is that it can be good or bad. When asked, I always tell people that if they carry one and a situation arrises where they would need one, would they be willing to pull that trigger and take a life. It is not an easy answer. Were you justified in pulling the trigger. Could you have taken a different course of action to avoid pullin the trigger. These are some of the questions one would have to ask themselves. If you could not do so, then you are better off without carrying one. Not to mention if you do shoot, miss and hit somebody else, you are liable for that. I have multiple hours of training in order to use my firearms and I have to get re-certified each year. There is a lot of responsibility to carrying a gun. In my case, I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I feel the same, but I feel that if the state makes this law they should require some certification with the firearm you will be carrying otherwise you are going to have to deal with untrained people with a gun.

Unfortunately, my state is no different, there is no private certification requirements that I know of. It can create problems on both sides of the law.

As far as I know all states that have right to carry laws also require a cert course and a criminal background check. The states that have enacted right-to-carry laws have seen lower violent crime rates and virtually no illegal activity from those people that were issued carry permits.

The lady I saved in Phoenix from a carjacker 4 years ago was happy I was carrying!

States with, per capita, the highest percentages of gun ownership, have the lowest crime rates. Although you very seldom hear about it, many many crimes are thwarted simply because the intended victim merely exhibited, or made the fact known, that he/she was in posession of a firearm. I personally have had a concealed weapons permit for almost twenty five years.
I refer to it as my American Express card, I never leave home without it. Have I ever had to use it? No. Would I ever use it? If necessary, without a moments hesitation. I have fired cases upon cases of ammo through my 40 calibre Beretta which is my main "carry".
It is extremely unfortunate we live in the "sickness" our world has become, a world where far too many people have no more regard for a human life, than a mosquitos. How many "massacres" could have been prevented if just one citizen had, and was competent, with a firearm? That restaurant in Texas involving the woman whose parents were killed comes to mind. By Texas law, she was required to leave her gun in her car. I wish it was a nicer, more courteous, safer world, but in reality it is not. Bottom line, don't bring a knife to a gun fight. Oh yeah, I've also won every "shoot from the hip" competition I've entered. That's actually a lot of fun. Like the saying goes, though there are those would would disagree. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I would not want someone to kill me without at least a chance of defending myself. My two cents anyway.

I had one in Texas-had to get a background check and had to qualify on the range.

Why invite the trouble?

If you carry and have cause to use be prepared for the consequence of possibly taking a life. Being in the military I learned to take a life but never had to. I also learned CPR as a Firefighter/First Responder but the first time I had to perform it on a dying person it was totally different from a rubber dummy. The same would hold true of holding a gun at a person you intended to shoot. If it was a choice between myself or my family being hurt or killed there would be no hesitation on my part.

I have one in MI and had to do a FBI background check as well as a 12 hour course and a shooting test. I do not carry all that often. I can tell you first hand that pointing at a paper target is 110% not the same a spointing a another human. I was put in a VERY bad situation where I was forced to draw. I was 100% in the right to shoot these morons and was very close, the hammer was about 3/4 the way back with the trigger. My neighbor who is a sheriff also had his drawn on a few of them. The scarriest moment in my life was drawing on a coke head and having him say "what are you going to do with your BB gun" and keep advancing. THANK GOD it all worked out to where I did not have to fire, my neighbor after seeing this whole thing before he got involed (not by choice but to protect himself as well)had 3 EMS units on the way. he said he has never seen such restraint and that he would have fired. The thought of being about 1/16" of taking a life is not a pleasant one, But I guess the moral is without my CCW I do not think I would be typing this..

I wish NJ would have a carry law.

I'd feel much better walking through Newark with a gun on my belt. Problem is that only law abiding people don't carry guns...in Newark NJ.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I heard that car jackings in Florida reached an all time high, then they allowed ANYONE to carry a gun in thier car. Carjackings declined dramatically.

Just as America has an army (weapon) and hopes not to use it unless needed, so should each person have the ability to protect themselves.

I shoot at a range at least once a week. I would wager money that I'm a better shot than 90% of the police in my area.

I escaped from New Orleans, La. (aka 'The Scene of the Crime') about 15 years ago...


I lived near my job at the time and used to frequently go to the office at night to do maintenance. As I was leaving, a fine upstanding young man demanded money or a ride from me. I ignored him and quickly got in my car. He approached me on the drivers side with his buddy on the passenger side. He didn't see what I was doing, and his hand was going inside his jacket. I pulled out a desert Eagle 44 mag and chambered a round. They both saw this and ran.

I hate to think what may have otherwise happened, and do not go to New Orleans unarmed, period.

That and friends ... no hesitation, but only in a life or death situation

Well I am not sure what your question is. Is it better to have concealed vs. unconcealed? If that is the case the concealed is MUCH better. Lets face it, guns make people nervous. As it is my right to carry it is another persons right to feel comfortable standing next to me. If they see a gun on my side they are not likely to feel comfortable (I know that I would not have felt comfortable before I learned how to handle guns).

If your question is about people right to carry at all then I say YES it is peoples right. They should have to pass a course (as in MA we have to take a few hour gun safty course and show some proficiency with carrying a gun). Of all the people that I know that actually have a license to carry most do not unless they feel that they are going some place that they may need it. MA if a for the most part a very safe state so I only carry when I ma going to not so safe areas with a lot of equipment in my car and I think that I may be a target for a robbery. If it is btwn some one taking all my stuff then they are going to get it and I will let them go and call the cops later. If I feel that they are going to hurt me then I would rather be hurt then kill some one. If I am in fear for my life (and that is the statute for shooting some one) then I would not hesitate to pull that trigger.

Owning a gun is a awsome responsibility and it is NOT to be taken lightly.

Jon

I got my CHL as soon as Texas allowed it(certificate#981:)) I have heard more good than bad news from this law. It has done very well here as far as crime rates etc.

Its good to hear that some states actually do require classes to go along with the certifications. Someday Pa. might but I find that very hard to believe. This state is so backwards. I agree with most of the comments here. I do think that people should have the right and ability to carry in order to keep themselves or others safe. I just want people to realize the realities of what it is like to possible have to shoot a person. From experience, the first time I had to pull a gun on a person I was extremely nervouse. This after training on not only how to use the gun but also on all of the legal and moral aspects of it. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the area I work in, I no longer have that nervous feeling. So far I am lucky enough that I have not had to actually shoot somebody. You would not believe the mess that ensues. Investigations on if it was legal or justified, the public slander, Civil litigation, special interest groups ( Varies on who you shoot ) that cry foul and want you to go to jail and then the fact that you either shot somebody or actually took a life. There have been two people that I worked with that actually shot and killed people in the line of duty here and both were cleared. But they still had to go through the gauntlet before hand. It is not fun and I would not wish it on anybody here. So know your facts, know your weapon and be comfortable with it.

Florida requires a course in concealed carry and a certification of completion.
I know several people that carry every day. One guy made sure his two daughters earned their carry permits which saved them in an attempted car jacking.
My brother lives in Ohio and he has his carry permit. The wife and I are considering doing the same.

I thought Jersey allowed concealed carry?
My friends dad, a locksmith, used to carry. He had a shop In Lakewood, NJ. One day three guys came in to have keys made, one clubbed him over the head while another checked the cash box, the third kept watch with a shotgun. He woke up while they were still there, grabbed his 45 Colt 1911, the guy with the shotgun was the first to go (dead), the guy that hit him lost a knee and the third hit the deck and stayed there till the cops came. Lakewood police commended him on his quick, decisive action.

GOT MINE ... AND YES YOU DO HAVE TO COMPLETE A COURSE. I FEEL THAT MANY LIFES ARE SAFED BY GUNS BUT THE MEDIA ONLY REPORTS ON THE CRIMANL USED GUNS.

Ohio does not have or allow any CCW. even an off duty police officer can not carry legaly in ohio

I agree with pretty much everything that has already been said here. There would definately need to be some type of mandatory training to prevent idiots from obtaining permits, lets face it people, pointing and pulling the trigger of a loaded gun that someone hands you, and actually knowing how to properly handle and operate a firearm are 2 compleley different things;)

Ohio is working on CCW, it hasn't passed yet tho.

Untrue Pack. Just got off the phone with my brother who is a retired cop/detective (Troy, Ohio) he carried one "legally" off duty for 22 years. He even quoted me the sec thats it in. A private investigator can also get a permitt from the state to carry one.


I personally am all for it. I've been taught that "Never pull a gun unless your going to use it". I've been shooting since I was 9 years old, used to go to the shooting range with my brother.
Hubby and I target practice occasionally for fun and to practice.

I've had my CC permit for 15 years and have very seldom carried and have never had to pull a gun. In indiana we only have to get a state Police and FBI background check, no training. I think a training requirement would be a good idea

The right to bear arms is a Constitutional Right provided to us by our forefathers. It is such so that if the citizens of this great nation feel that the government has become to powerful they would be armed and able to counteract such attrocities. Additionally, it is the firearm along with the brave men and women that have provided us our freedom. It is my firm belief that every person who is a law abiding citizen has the RIGHT to own and carry a firearm. However, with that comes responsibility. Many excellent points were stated above that need not be repeated, i.e. responsibility, knowledge, etc etc. I also feel that it is NOT in the individual's state's power to supercede the Constitution and thereby limit the manner in which you own a gun, i.e. the ability to carry concealed. As was stated earlier, whether law abiding citizens have these permits or not, the vast majority of weapons used in crime are weapons that are obtained illegally. Therefore, restricting honest law abiding citizens is merely giving the upper hand to the criminal. I hope none of you ever have to draw or use a weapon to protect yourselves, family or friends. However, if you ever do, please be prepared for what may follow.

I think Michigan has allowed it for 3 or 4 years now fortunately they require background checks and 1 or 2 day course depending on where you take it. Every citizen should have the right to protect themselves, the criminals already carry without a permit. Hopefully people take the time to learn how to handle their weapons it's one thing to carry it around, it's another to be forced to use it.

have carried w/out a permit and have carried w/ one.

I have readied myself in a couple cases to pull the trigger but have always found an alternative to actually using my weapon. ie: evasive action.

I do agree we have the right to bear arms and I always will , I would much rather get caught with it than without it.

I have one, but won't pull my gun unless me or my family or friends lives are in danger. I don't think shooting somebody for taking my car stereo will go over well in court. But if I do shoot I will make sure they are dead, dead men can't talk. A Judge told me that, he flat out told me make sure he's dead and don't talk to anyone until you have a lawyer even if that means spending a night in jail.

I also have a CCW, living in Michigan. At first, as a well educated, constituationally aware guy, I begrudgingly took the 12 hour class because it was required. What an eye opener. Lots of things were brought up that I had never considered. During the session with the lawyer, I learned that most of the "conventional wisdom" about what you can and can't do, is 100% wrong, and will land you a long stay in the big house.

I originally got it because I am out a lot late at night, and like has been stated so many times above, I believe it is my right to be able to defend myself. Philisophically, I look at carry a gun like wearing a seat belt, or wearing a helmet. You hope to go through your entire life never needing any of them, but if you ever should, you probably REALLY need them.

The reality is that the left has been extremely effective at training society in general (the "sheepeople") with all kinds of nonscense about guns. If you have negative ideas regarding guns, I strongly suggest that you get some real information and read it. You can't argue with the truth. On the simplest level, think about it. If you were a criminal, by definition, you aren't playing by the rules. Which would you prefer? That every one of your potential victems was disarmed, or that every 2nd or 3rd one be armed, and you didn't know who was? Of course you would prefer the easy pickings, with no chance of you being shot.

I will say that people shouldn't be allowed to carry without going through a thorough class.

Florida allows military trained people to carry with just an FBI background check. We work in Opa Locka (rough place). We have had three strong arm (armed) robberies within a block of our shop. I am packing in the interest of life and limb.

TN requires a course to get the permit.

I have a carry permit.
I never carry.
I have no accessible firearms in my home.

I like the fact that the crooks never know who may be carrying now. Before, most law-abiding people were unarmed - now, who knows.

The permit info is public record, so if some crook is doing research and chooses to get info on me, he will see a carry permit. He will not see any hunting licenses, though, so he will have no reason to think I have a cache of resellable guns, but will know that I know how to use a gun and may indeed be armed and ready.

I've never wanted to carry, but I do indeed like the confusion that it causes the crooks. 7 of 10 friends have permits and 3 of 10 carry.

I like the ability to carry concealed weapons, but I do think that TN has it right in that it requires a background check, a fairly comprehensive course and test, and a shooting accuracy test as well.

You are right about no permits in Ohio, but they may be coming. BTW Toledo Police Officers are REQUIRED to carry a weapon at all times.

I carry, but not concealed. Let me explain. Down here, you go most places in your car. If I am going in someplace, chances are, it will be crowded enough no one would be stupid enough to cause that sort of trouble. The one in the car is not concealed unless the car is parked. The rest of the time it is in plain sight and easily reached.

Interestingly, the only time I have ever felt I needed it, the weapon was unavailable. I had just been pulled over by a local Barney Fife type. I was on a long trip through Texas. The guy gave me a bunch of $hit and told me it was a felony in Texas to carry a loaded weapon in the car -- He said the ammunition had to be in a separate part of the cae (ie. trunk). When I was leaving I put the clip in the trunk. About two hours later, we had stopped at a Walgreen's in Houston and the G/F went in. Up comes a crackhead causing trouble, and he gets into a fist fight with the store manager. For the G/F to get back to the car, she is going to have to walk though the area of the fight. Thankfully, the guy ran off before she came out.

I later found out Deputy Fife had lied to me and that I was perfectly legal. Jerk.:hothead:

Missouri's carry/conceal goes into effect in the next few days. Missouri does not require a certification course and does a background check.

This issue was defeated by the citizens of Missouri in a statewide ballot and our legislators decided that wasn't what we really wanted.

IMO the reason for the uproar over this carry issue is the fact that the state government overturned the people's wish for no concealed carry, overroad the govenor's veto and generally did whatever they wanted to do.

By the way, the past ballot was primarily defeated by the urban populations of St. Louis and Kansas City.

Personally, I don't have a problem with it...EXCEPT...for the lack of training and certification. This law should require yearly certification with accuracy tests and some kind of analysis concerning moral and mental attitudes.

As soon as everyone gets a permit, road rage will cease to exist. Better to have it and not need it, than visa versa. I feel naked without it now. Every year more states recognizing other state's permits. See www.packing.org

I personally used to carry a weapon wherever I went, under the advise of a former US Marshall that my father knew very well.
I soon found that it was of no use if I didn't have it within reach.
Today, I don't carry a weapon with me when I travel, but I should.
Most of us have nice boats and nice tow rigs, and are therefore moving targets. When we travel withthe boat, we generally stay on the interstates and major highways due to the ease of exiting, fuel stops, etc.
However, we do occasionally venture off the beaten path. I would hate to think what could happen with a wrong turn somewhere in the middle of the night coming back from the lake! And it has happened before.
My dillema now is that quite often our four small kids are with us, and I don't really want a gun in the car with them!
On the otherhand, I would give my life to protect theirs, so I really should take every precaution.
Perhaps it's time to re-think the gun in the car, with a fool-proof safety lockout added. Hmmmmmmm, though provoking stuff.:)

bellyfeel
It's my understanding that MO DOES require a safety course that includes info on when a gun can be used.
Probably a good thing too.There's at least one example on the board that would not qualify.
I've seen statistics that cops miss more than 50% of the shots they take, and they're well trained. Got to keep in mind where those other 50% of the bullets are going.
On the other hand, I think it's generally accepted that all incidents where a concealed weapon stopped a crime are not reported by anyone involved. Additionally, the press seems reluctant to report on such incidents (a shooting at a NE college campus comes to mind).
All in all, I think it's a good thing. I'm getting mine.
Remember, Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than all my hand guns combined.
Gary

Gary,

You are correct. An eight hour course is required. My mistake.

I have one here in Pa. My father is a Policeman. He has drilled into my head that it is a last resort ONLY. It's not to break up a fight or win a fight it's to save my life when it's about to be taken.

ONly thing I think there should be some sort of standard course nation wide before they issue them

NY is a whole different kettle of fish.. I have my CC but the judge restricts it to hunting and target. The sheriff who taught the 3 hour safety course, required to get my CC said there are no written laws in NY that says a judge can restrict your liscence. I stayed after the class and point blank asked the shriff if I can carry my gun anywhere at anytime, he said YES, except for schools, banks, NYC and any federal buildings. I asked why the whole hunting and target crap, he said well, for one it makes it easier and faster for you to get your permit, so I said to myself since when is a judge willing to help anyone out, then he told me if the judge puts this on the permits people think they can't carry their guns and there will be less people carrying overall...

I was still skeptical, because I do carry most of the time, and looked deeper into this. I asked another sheriff and he said if you get caught carrying with a hunting and target restricted permit the officer cannont arrest you or give you any kind of fine, but he can report you to the issuing judge, who in turn could possibly take your permit away...

permits work different ways in different counties in ny, I live in putnam and this is the case, dutchess issues full carry only, many counties try to issue these restricted permits, does ANYONE know 1000% the real deal regarding these restricted permits.. I have heard many sides to this story, some collaberating this and some not.


P.S. to anwser your question, yes, I do believe it is our right to carry a weapon and a good idea. I dont know the statistics, but I would say 99.9% of the crimes commited w/ guns are obtained illegally, and laws are only for law abiding citizens. Gun control gives the upper hand to the criminals who use guns against us. and a gun has NEVER killed anyone..