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I read somewhere it was NOT part of the mold but tacked on adds I assume you can get the old style deck and cockpit configuration (Rough Rider).
The Maximus I have not seen any indications that the Cockpit or deck could be gotten differently then the reversed McLarenF1 configuration and the tripled bubble deck reminiscent of the Revo. |
I hope that is the case. It's hard to tell with just photos.
The Maximus would definitely not be easy to change. Maybe at least the RR's will be OK. |
Originally posted by stinger312 First Don Aronow.... then NE 188 st.... now the boats themselves... |
That Maximus center driving position is odd. Whoever said reverse Mclaren F1 hit the nail on the head. The further back you sit in a boat, the harder it is to see out of it, which makes putting the driver that far back doesnt seem to make a bunch of sense. And the way to access the cabin??? Hope no one has to get there while under power. Obviously not at speed, but in a no wake, i could see people wanting to get a beer, or lose one (head). Cant do that if you have to open the helm delorean style.
As for the RR. It used to be on a big boat the bow would obscure your view a bit before planing off, but they now have a solution for that! A helm that blocks your view no matter what state the boat is in???? I cant afford a Cig, so this isnt an issue to me, but i love the boats, and really dont think this is the way to go...... |
can we forward this thread to mr braver and neil?
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Posted in Cigarette Owners Forum
Posted - 11/04/2003 : 19:36:40
---------------------------------------- I started a poll after seeing the new Rough Rider and Maximus models layout from the Fort Lauderdale boat show pictures that where posted. The results are in the following tread on Offshore Only. http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...threadid=62967 I think the Tiger and the Gladiator are superb. Let me know your opinion. G.L. Harvie |
they never read their forums or respond to questions there
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Dreamer,
You think what is said here was not said to reps at the boot???? Believe me they know already. Trutfully the only opinion that counts is the ones of the buyers if they don't order, that sentiment will reflect in sales, sales figures don't lie. And all companies are receptive those numbers. |
I like the idea of having the steering wheel in the center.
I don't like the bureaucracy of that lifting steering column, door, etc. vtec |
Well it looks like Skip is trying to re-invent something that had already been perfected. It can only go downhill from here. I'm not surprised one bit. BH
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I can remember when I first saw the ad for the rum runner in powerboat, my first thoughts were (1) since when did rum become contraband ?,(2)I would hate to be walking along the beach and startle the two smugglers thus getting shot with a spear gun and (3)why can't I have a cool screen name like "troutly":D?...Anyway it's sad that cig is putting so much effort into the" logo" and not the boats, instead of becoming the next "Harley Davidson"they may end up like ford and the Edsel because the only thing missing from these boats are the giant tail fins...;)
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sad thing is it took a whole lot of time, money and effort to come up with that . . . . kinda reminds me when Homer Simpson helped his long lost brother come up with the "new car model":rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Bud & Marlyn posted answers on the Cigarette Owners Forum about this survey and the new models.
Originally posted by Marilyn from Cigarette on 11/09/2003 : 18:02 Since Skip Braver and Neill Hernandez are quite busy relocating Cigarette's current factory to the new 200,000 s.f. headquarters, I thought I would respond to the recent interest in Cigarette's new concept boats that were displayed at the Ft. Lauderdale International Boat Show. The American Muscle and Rum Runner are concept boats--one of a kind powerboats that show the cutting edge of the popular 46' Rough Rider model. While National Marine owns the Rum Runner, American Muscle is not for sale. It is the corporately owned concept boat that Skip and Neill will campaign on the 2004 Poker Run circuit, just as they did with the X42 boat this year. (Which by the way will be the cover of Boating Magazine in December) Cigarette is testing the brand new Mercury 1075's as well as the new GPS with NorthStar and the SmartCraft that Mercury developed for those engines. Such R&D helps Cigarette continue to refine its products and develop new, state-of-the-art powerboats. Just as the concept X42 became a production boat within a year, the concept boats like American Muscle, Rum Runner and Maximus show the same promise. The 45 Maximus on display at the show portrayed true "out of the box" thinking and the public reaction verifies that people admire and enjoy innovation. Three 45 Maximus boats were sold at the show and the new model can be built with regular seating as well as the center design. Whoever thought that the dash height of the Rough Rider is too high has probably not driven one. As noted, American Muscle was built for its owners, as is every Cigarette, so heights can be adjusted as necessary--just as all accessories and features can be chosen to suit the owner's taste--and height. Such are the advantages of buying a custom-built boat, created by the company whose name is synonomous with power, performance and quality. We are pleased that you are interested in Cigarette Racing Team's new models and invite you to visit a dealer who can explain the details of each model's fine construction. Cigarette is on a roll and you, as owners, are most important to us. We appreciate hearing your opinions and welcome your input. Thanks for visiting us at the Ft. Lauderdale Show! Best always, Marilyn DeMartini for Cigarette Racing Team Originally posted by Bud from Cigarette on 11/07/2003 : 11:15 Have any of the people that have voted on this model ever ran one I have quite a few hours in them and like the way they feel Don't be so negative |
Wow, looks like the bandwagon hit a tree.
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I found it hard to see over the dash. I'm 6'1 I guess they want to selll them to NBA Players. It would be worse when coming on plane. Maybe you can get On-Star in it too!
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GLH, I can't find those posts...looks like someone may have taken them down.
Troutly, Right on...performance or no, the boat still has to be asthetically pleaseing to the eye... 28/38...dunno 'bout the "bandwagon", looks like alot of people with similar opinions...do you mean to tell me you like the looks of Maximus? Bud is probably one of the last remaining old school guys at Cigarette...so I think statements by hime lend some credibility to what Skip and Neill are attempting to accomplish, but I still stand by my original impression of those deck/dash designs...cause you've lost this Cigarette owner there... BTW, Buddy, in case you read this, Herb sold the Competition and says to say hello...Those Hawk engines were nothing short of incredible |
not good for them not good noooooooooootttttttt good
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i THINK THAT THOSE ARE SOME OF THE UGLIEST BOATS I HAVE EVER SEEN.
they actually sold 3 maximus boats? i wonder what the clentele was like. i would suspect that they were not true performance enthusiasts. Cigerette seems to be losing sight of what makes them CIGERETTE. their racing efforts are lacking now, and it has been a while since a cig was on the podium. the 36 gladiator was a great design, but these new designs seem to to target a short lived and trendy market. no wonder you see so many high dollar boats for sale, used that is, and many of them are 2003 models. People with alot of money, but little knowledge or commitment get in and get out. I think that donzi, dragon, and outerlimits are the new big vee-bottom boys. Beuatiful, functional designs. Thats what true offshore buyers want. Nick Porter F2-34 t-man |
Originally posted by Sean 28/38...dunno 'bout the "bandwagon", looks like alot of people with similar opinions...do you mean to tell me you like the looks of Maximus? The "bandwagon" is everyone trying their best to slam new ideas. Like steps, electronics, paint jobs, Cigarette, the new Apache, anything on this board that isn't 20 years old. Marilyn and Bud reminded everyone that Cigarette is a custom boat manufacturer. Meaning, your imagination is the limit. National Marine owns the Rum Runner boat. So they, not Cigarette, would be the ones to blame for the design. American Muscle is just a company owned concept boat for running poker runs and support. You guys all b-tch about how Cig doesn't go to your poker runs. Now they are, and the board still cries about something else. I wouldn't order the extra stuff on a new RR either, but I'm not going to say, "OH the company is doomed" or "Oh, they are crazy." Custom means you aren't limited to just one idea. If you don't like the new ideas, then don't order them. They still make the other styles too. Don't knock them for being current and trying new ideas. If they arent received well, then they will change. At least they aren't stuck in 1980 like some of the board seems to be. As for the Maximus, I really liked the hull and cap layup. I wasn't fond of the cockpit but as Bud said, they have different ideas for that. It's Brand new, let them tinker with it. I think the folks that will actually be buying a 46 or a 45 will have the final say on what the want for their model. And I don't see anyone around here with that check in their hand. I bet money that if the new Apache comes with a kick ass boat soon, the board will kiss their ass like they had their back the whole time. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Before anyone gets ready to rip me apart on here. I think most know who this post pertains to and who it doesn't. :) |
Sean those posts were posted and are still up in the Cigarette site not here.
Good points CR28/38 |
points well taken 28/38
For the record, i am strictly old school and am still somewhat stuck in the 80's...so these new designs are lost on me, but you're right about Cigarette always wanting to try new things, i guess that is a good thing. I also know that i will probably never be able to afford a new Cigarette, so they have no reason to try to appeal to me. My only real gripe I guess, would be their lack of interest in racing offshore. The company was founded on being the toughest, fastest boat offshore and now they are build ing spaceships...one man's opinion. I also think that the new deck design on the 41 Apache is simply awesome. It reminds me of the '05 Mustang...you can see design elements of the old model in the new car/boat. I will also say that if I ever did have the means, I would not jump on any bandwagon and would probably not by an Apache from the current ownership...People buy from people and these guys clearly are not my kind of people. Guess that only leaves a new Outerlimits for me :) |
Originally posted by F2-34thrttleman I think that donzi, dragon, and outerlimits are the new big vee-bottom boys. Beuatiful, functional designs. Thats what true offshore buyers want. Nick Porter F2-34 t-man Craig did a great job designing the Dragon. He is a member of the board, and was nice enough to share the progress with us. For that reason, I never saw one person ask a question that might be less than positive about his idea. Why? Afraid because he is here and can respond? Probably. Your kidding yourself if you say that the Dragon is not the most unique and different design currently. It's far more custom than a dash or some electrnics. But no negative responses (and I know some of you had less than positive things to say). I like it and am eager to see what he will change and modify on the next one. Since Cigarette chooses to not be a part of the board, then they are subject to all of the criticism and 3rd hand knowledge you can dish out. Why? Because it's behind their back, or so you think it is. You wouldn't rip the Fiore's for their pricing or designs on here. They will rip you right back with real knowledge and reasoning as to what makes them special. OL is innovative and constantly trying new ideas. That is why they are successful. Same with NorTech, Donzi, Cigarette, and (oh my god!) Apache. If you don't like it, don't buy it. |
frankly i think the cigarette line is not as good
as it was 2001 and back. it is not the same boat |
Although I am one of the competitors I still have opinions because at the end of the day, I'm a "boater" just like the rest of you. I thought the cigs were pretty tricked out. Over the top, maybe but hey they got everybody talking. Where I think some mistakes are being made and not just cig is that it still has to be a "BOAT". Of course it has to perform, be built well and look good but you need satisfy the basics, like being able to see where your going (duh). You need to be able to tie the thing up to a dock or raft with others. (I see some new designs that take foredeck and stern access to new levels of difficulty). Sometimes (c'mon now) you have to please the other half. What I look for is a good combination. Luckily for all of us, there's more than one boat builder out there and everyone seems to have their niche. The good news is that we have choices.
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Originally posted by salesmanship Although I am one of the competitors I still have opinions because at the end of the day, I'm a "boater" just like the rest of you. I thought the cigs were pretty tricked out. Over the top, maybe but hey they got everybody talking. Where I think some mistakes are being made and not just cig is that it still has to be a "BOAT". Of course it has to perform, be built well and look good but you need satisfy the basics, like being able to see where your going (duh). You need to be able to tie the thing up to a dock or raft with others. (I see some new designs that take foredeck and stern access to new levels of difficulty). Sometimes (c'mon now) you have to please the other half. What I look for is a good combination. Luckily for all of us, there's more than one boat builder out there and everyone seems to have their niche. The good news is that we have choices. |
Murphy's Law Is The Issue
My concerns regarding their new design all revolve around the sheer number of parts and pieces necessary to execute that design. The offshore environment demands less not more moving parts. ( hell I can't keep the oil in a gaffrig speedo :rolleyes: ) If you've noticed Mr. Fiore's more serious boats are getting back to basics ie. fewer "amenities". You'll find most of those who stay involved with offshore, and continue to buy faster and faster boats (and actually run them in offshore conditions) want less not more of what Cig is leaning toward.
A friend of mine has purchased the first Dragon, I have HUGE reservations about how "user friendly" it will be in real world conditions, however they did a pretty good job of keeping it simple on the parts and pieces front. I don't expect it to fall apart, I do expect it to be a pain in the a$$ to see out of and operate, we'll see. I do appreciate design exercises, and the huge costs that accompany them, but they typically are just that, in house envelope stretching, learning and promotional exercises, nobody expects them to work well, and they don't sell them to the public. This new boat has a mirad of potential electrical and mechanical problems that could do much damage to the legend that is Cigarette, and that would be a shame. |
cigracer28/38
Yes, if cigerette members were on the board, not only would i question the design, but i would ask that they reconsider such radical departures from functional offshore designs in order to keep cigerette where i feel it should be. No, i dont own any part of cigerette,there fore i have no say in its designs, but i will be a future prospective buyer with the money or "check in hand" to support my taste and decisions. I simply feel that the dragon has wider appeal in design and look than some of the new cig designs. i am far from stuck in the 80's. I am a very current individual. i like seeing the offshore race world eveolve into short course close competition. I throttled a factory 2 race boat for 3 consecutive seasons, and a factory 1 boat for 1. I like new designs, and i think there are alot of good builders out there. In closing i do respect innovation, it is the pre-requisite to evolution. Maybe people will truly like the new cig designs. Time and order schedules will tell. Nick Porter P.S., I always wish that people would sign thier names at the end of their posts. That way when i meet people in person i can address them by their name, instead of saying "hey are you Back4more, raypanic, etc....." |
We can't forget also that the models we are talking about here are not the bread and butter of Cigarette in my opinion (omitting t-shirts :D). I would venture the TG, Gladiator and Tiger are probably the majority of orders and the 45' and 46's might represent at best 15% of their yearly production. Entailing about 12 boats a year based on 85 / year production I have heard.
Those rigs are however the Flagships so, many eyes are looking. I'm sold on the recent TG/TS's (Rice Hauler and the likes)and the Tigers(anything Martin and Phil have used currently) BIG time, and these forays into innovations won't affect the attractions to the 38 and 42's I have and my intentions toward trying to get into a 2000-2002 boat. I am not of means to afford getting hit with depreciation associated with new boats anyway, new anything practically. G.L. Harvie (for you F2!) |
P.S., I always wish that people would sign thier names at the end of their posts. That way when i meet people in person i can address them by their name, instead of saying "hey are you Back4more, raypanic, etc....." [/B] P.S. I dont hide behind screen names either. My name is Brandon Lee. I will buy the first round. ;) :cool: |
Originally posted by cigracer28/38 ...It's nice having a discussion (not arguement) on the board... |
1 Attachment(s)
Originally posted by GLH This said C28/38 let's talk about your Avatar. Did you get a hold of some bad acide? :D LOL. If only it was that easy. Actually I got it from Outerlimits. They have a GTX called the "Joker" that I absolutely fell in love with. The avatar is part of the paint job. Here is the rest, although GLH, you have probably seen it before. Is this not killer? |
ahhhhhhhhh brandon and Mr harvie are making me all warm inside.:) it IS nice to have a conversation and that is one of the aspects that make this board truly great. Thank you brandon for your effective conversation abilities and any one who will be in key west, i look forward to meeting you. I will be there from the 20th to the 25th.
Nick Porter F2-34 T-man |
Nick,
You will be there??Awesome! I expect you to take me up on my offer of the first round. I will be in my 38 T/S (surprise surprise) called "Roughneck". I have actually gone against a promise I made to myself that I would not post as often anymore. I feel the board is becoming so negative these days, sad. I am a Natural Gas Trader and spend a huge amount of time on the phone and computer. OSO stays open in my browser for relief. I would love to see more intellegent discussions about new ideas and old. Less "my boat is better than yours" talk. This is the best thing next to actually being on the water to me. I think many can relate. See you in the Keys Nick! -Brandon |
More likely the Miami Boat Show for me, next time in FL
Nick no Mister that was my father! |
Brandon, i will be there in a 34 ft phantom, F2-34 Pipedream, I look forward to meeting you. ahhhh key west, here I come.............GL too bad you cant make the keys, it will be a GOOD time.
Nick Porter |
That boat is kind of akin to ****ing your really hot 1st cousin. Yeah maybe she's tall, thin, blonde and got huge perfect tits so on paper it seem like maybe its good idea to screw her, but the reality is you just wind up with a kid with one tooth and 6 toes, on each hand....
keep trying boys. I give you credit for making an effort BUT you need to consult with a skilled designer and stylist. There are good things in train wreck designs. Take the level of workmanship and the concepts of modernising the offshore dash/cockpit and combime them with a solid design and you might have something. and just beacsue somethings eel doesn;t mean its a good design. for example, the pontiac aztec (they sold a bunch of them when they came out) or the latest itteration of the aztec on steroids, the H2. |
Miller,
I appreciate your feedback and thank you. Are you going to Key West? We'll be on display at the Conch Republic restaurant dock. Terry Nor-Tech |
Originally posted by puder ...and 6 toes, on each hand... |
Originally posted by salesmanship Miller, I appreciate your feedback and thank you. Are you going to Key West? We'll be on display at the Conch Republic restaurant dock. Terry Nor-Tech |
Guys,
For those of you that also appreciate the PEOPLE behind the boats, what did you think of the NEW faces behind the NEW boats, ie: Neil and Skip were at the Lauderdale show, are they customer oriented, I have my opinion, how about others. |
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