Like Tree0Likes

Arneson on V Bottoms

Reply
Old 11-17-2003, 11:50 AM
  #51
Registered
 
super termoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 647
Default

I think we pretty much covered the topic. As caveman points out and as i have previously stated, surface drives can be adapted to a boat designed for sterndrives. If the boat already has sterndrives and everything has been built around them, it's a more difficult process which involves some time and financial investment. Like in Too Old's case, it's probably better to go for Speedmasters in this case. It's a good, solid drive and looks cool. Plus it also has a rooster tail... If on the other hand you're ordering a new boat, it's pretty easy for a manufacturer to build a surface drive boat without changing anything to the initial design. It should not cost you much more than sterndrives and I would strongly suggest you inquire about that possibility when ordering. Performance will be improved and reliability will be in another league. Still, the best option is when a manufacturer adapts its product to suit perfectly surface drives, like Hustler did with the 32. This will allow you to take full advantage of this technology and greatly reduce any drawbacks you may experience, like a loose transom for instance. Which I guess answers your question Trader1. Your Cig idea sounds like a good one because you really have very little choice. If you stick with sterndrives, you either have to go for Bravos and hope for the best and then shell out for 6s when you step up the motors or get the boat with 6s straight away. The problem is the fact that 500s with 6s is not such a hot idea because a 6 takes a bunch of HP to move and you need every single one of those when you have stock motors. So with your plan in mind and sterndrives, you initially have to choose between performance and reliability. An Arneson drive would allow you to enjoy maximum performance and maximum reliability with your original stock motors and would also allow you to pump the motors up without the hassle and expense of changing the drives while still enjoying max performance and reliability. I say go for it. Plus you can cover the Arnesons with a huge platform which is nice for swimming and claim that your 36 is infact a custom 42 Tiger...
super termoli is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2003, 12:59 PM
  #52
Lynch Mob Racing
Platinum Member
 
Hot Duck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ocean City, MD
My Boats: 39' Cigarette Top Gun, Donzi 22 Classic, 36 Yellowfin
Posts: 2,673
Default

Surface drives throw a great rooster tail and look really cool, but you can get the same tail with outdrives. We are running Sportmasters and the boat throws a natural rooster tail regardless of trim. Granted, the X dimension is pretty high (could actually be a little higher), but it stills planes easily and handles really well. Of course, with outdrives you don't get that bad a** look associated with the surface drives.

Anyhow, with a good rooster tail people can certainly see you coming from a long distance. They see white water long before the boat appears! Pretty cool.
Attached Thumbnails
Arneson on V Bottoms-2.jpg  
Hot Duck is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2003, 01:00 PM
  #53
Lynch Mob Racing
Platinum Member
 
Hot Duck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ocean City, MD
My Boats: 39' Cigarette Top Gun, Donzi 22 Classic, 36 Yellowfin
Posts: 2,673
Default

Attached Thumbnails
Arneson on V Bottoms-3.jpg  
Hot Duck is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2003, 01:16 PM
  #54
Lynch Mob Racing
Platinum Member
 
Hot Duck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ocean City, MD
My Boats: 39' Cigarette Top Gun, Donzi 22 Classic, 36 Yellowfin
Posts: 2,673
Default

Has anybody else tried Weismann drives? This is the pair on the Lucas Oil Super V. They appear to have a transom assembly like a regular outdrive, but the function of a surface drive. These may be an option for a conversion. Any ideas?
Attached Thumbnails
Arneson on V Bottoms-weismann-drives.jpg  

Last edited by Hot Duck; 11-17-2003 at 01:26 PM.
Hot Duck is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2003, 01:22 PM
  #55
Lynch Mob Racing
Platinum Member
 
Hot Duck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ocean City, MD
My Boats: 39' Cigarette Top Gun, Donzi 22 Classic, 36 Yellowfin
Posts: 2,673
Default

Another angle.

Weismann Drives
Attached Thumbnails
Arneson on V Bottoms-weismann-drives-2.jpg  
Hot Duck is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2003, 01:53 PM
  #56
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
rainmn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Manahawkin, NJ
Posts: 2,121
Default

What about Sage drives? I know that Pat Patel had a pleasure 46 Sakter with Sage drives and Torque V-12's...I saw DARRENUS1's pictures of it at Skaterfest, and never saw it again.
I also never heard anything about Sage drives again.
What happened to that boat? Does it still have those drives? Someone a while back mentioned that the Torques were swapped out for Sterlings.
rainmn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2003, 04:36 PM
  #57
Registered
 
super termoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 647
Default

Honestly, there are so many SD systems out there that I can't really remember which ones are which. When I see one, I can recognize it and say what it does but just by the name, it gets more difficult. As far as Weismann goes, I do not see any advantages over a #6 drive. I know they claim it's a true surface drive but it's not. I have not seen them really beat up the #6 on the racecourse either. They did have a moment of glory though. Remember when Ettore boat stuffed it and became an U-boat for a while. Those photos were cool and it had Weismann drives. I am sure it's a good drive but it's as much of a step forward from a #6 as a BMax is from a Bravo XR. As for Sage, is that the one with a variable X-dimension? If so, that sounds like a good idea to squeeze that last drop of speed out of the boat on a straight course but still make it handle and accelerate right in the twisty stuff. All this sounds quite fragile though. I believe Scism and MTI were going to use this but I hear they are now trying out BPM drives which have proven themselves in Class 1 in Europe. Pity about Torques though. Those guys had the right ideas: "a clean sheet design". I hope Callan and d'Annibale do something with the tooling and stop using those pre-historic V8 blocks...
super termoli is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2003, 04:46 PM
  #58
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
rainmn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Manahawkin, NJ
Posts: 2,121
Default

Yes, the Sage is the one with the variable X. Here's a link to pictures I was talking about. (I didn't want to rob Darren's pictures to post here.)

http://www.darrensoffshorephotos.hom...aterfest2.html
rainmn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2003, 05:25 PM
  #59
Registered
 
super termoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 647
Default

That looks like somebody took a sterndrive rather than a surface drive and made its X dimension variable. What I'm trying to say is that this Sage drive is clearly inspired by the #6. I'm sorry but it all looks very fragile. I bet I could break it in a day. Awesome boat, great racers but those drives have a "DIY" look about them. What is interesting is that with this drive, we have the whole spectrum covered. First we have Trimax which is not trimmable nor steerable. Just a fixed shaft, thus requiring rudders for steering. Then we have the BPM drive which is not steerable and thus requires rudders but is (slightly) trimmable. Then we have Arnesons and the likes of SDS drives which are trimmable and steerable. And finally we have the Sage drive which is trimmable, steerable and with a variable X dimension, in other words it moves all over the place. No prizes for guessing which is the most reliable. Plus, the Trimax can be set at a really shallow angle (2) because certain design characteristics allow it to keep good handling characteristics even at this angle (cavitation control). So you can be just as fast if not faster than others while keeping it all supremely reliable. It simply NEVER broke in racing and it is fast. Look at Tommy Bahama. As far as I'm concerned, it's really the best surface drive system. I am expecting to be shot down in flames for saying this but I'll leave it at that...
super termoli is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2003, 05:39 PM
  #60
Registered
 
super termoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 647
Default

And before we start a controversy and hurt Mr. Weismann's feelings, it must be said that respect is due to anybody who conceives a drive which can handle the power of today's raceboats and run with the best. I imagine this drive was conceived with financial resources far inferior to those of Mercury Racing so considerable talent and ingenuity had to be deployed to take it to that level. My criticism concerns the originality of its concept. It's maybe an evolution of what already exists but not a revolution. When Howard Arneson designed his drive or when Fabio Buzzi decided to rethink it all, we're talking about revolutionary ideas...
super termoli is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Rebel_Heart
Fountain
10
05-05-2008 12:42 AM
dank368
General Boating Discussion
23
10-21-2005 09:57 AM
warlocking
General Boating Discussion
0
10-10-2004 10:07 PM
Buddy OO
General Boating Discussion
8
08-15-2004 03:47 AM
later
Fountain
0
10-01-2003 03:10 PM



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:33 AM.


Copyright 2011 OffShoreOnly. All rights reserved.