Like Tree0Likes

Kaama/Arneson??

Reply
Old 12-15-2003, 12:34 PM
  #1
Toxic FORMULA
Platinum Member
Thread Starter
 
mopower's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: pitman nj
My Boats: 1989 Formula SR-1 272 t/540's
Posts: 4,238
Default Kaama/Arneson??

This has bothering me for some time Maybe some one can set me straight.
Kaama and Arneson drives seem very simple and straight forward. Why have they not caused the demise of the standard outdrive such as Alphas or Bravos(other than the fact Kaamas are already gone).
mopower is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2003, 01:45 PM
  #2
Registered
 
super termoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 647
Default

Mopower, this is an endless question. I suggest you look up some other threads like "arneson on V-bottoms" where this issue has been debated at great length. I will just say that it's a cultural thing. Outdrives are embedded within the popular powerboating culture and while they are not (anymore) the best transmission option, habits take a long time to change. Why? For one, the practices or malpractices of a dominant manufacturer which has such market presence that it has the ability to impose itself as the only choice (this covers service and parts availability, availability of labor which is skilled with that type of transmission...) In other words, Mercury is keeping a tight grip on the market and even though there are better options, outdrives still have the largest market share. And people buy what they see around them so... Secondly, surface drives would require manufacturers to rethink their bottoms slightly and the cost of retooling is something they are not always willing to invest in. They are used to sterndrives, they are still selling boats with sterndrives so why fix it if it ain't broken, right? Which is kinda sad for a community which is supposed to be gear and tecnology-oriented, but there you have it. But this continuous quest for performance already calls for a greater consideration of surface drives. They are faster and more reliable and with engines pumping out more power and torque than ever and with boats going faster than ever, people are starting to take a serious look at them. Can't stop progress. Just my opinion...
super termoli is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2003, 01:58 PM
  #3
Registered
Trade Score: (1)
 
rchevelle71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Boca Raton
My Boats: 1982 Pantera 24sport
Posts: 7,392
Default

Same reason some of us still put Film in the Camera!!!!
rchevelle71 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2003, 02:11 PM
  #4
Toxic FORMULA
Platinum Member
Thread Starter
 
mopower's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: pitman nj
My Boats: 1989 Formula SR-1 272 t/540's
Posts: 4,238
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by rchevelle71
Same reason some of us still put Film in the Camera!!!!
I know what you mean But in some cases it's an advantage.


Super,
Since there are a number of O/D manufactures , I was wondering why Merc (who has a tight reign on things)never explored this avenue themselves and painted them black. Of course theres always the relacement part market for what they already build. After all if they made them too simple or reliable the replacement part market wouldn't be there for them
.
mopower is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2003, 06:58 PM
  #5
Registered
 
super termoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 647
Default

Mopower, good question! I guess Merc do what they do, they are tooled up and have the expertise to build outdrives and they do it pretty darn well within the limits of that concept. They really have the technological edge in sterndrives and going into the surface drive market would expose them to competitors which are much more powerful than the Bravo Shop, Teague or IMCO. No disrespect meant but no comparison either with surface drive merchants like ZF or Twin Disc. They would expose themselves to a very probable scenario where they would lose some of their drive business and sell much more "bobtail" engines to be mated to a competitor's surface drive. Merc don't want that, they want to sell more "packages" by sticking to their "core competences". It's a fairly common market situation: when smaller players are reduced to marginal roles or weeded out completely, big enterprises collude and segment the market so that everyone has a niche and keeps out of others' affairs. And this is what seems to be taking place in the transmissions market. If Merc tried to make surface drives, it would be a situation of all-out competition and then I would not be surprised to see say Twin Disc make a sterndrive and I bet they could make a pretty good one. And that would be bad news for Merc.
super termoli is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2003, 07:04 PM
  #6
Toxic FORMULA
Platinum Member
Thread Starter
 
mopower's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: pitman nj
My Boats: 1989 Formula SR-1 272 t/540's
Posts: 4,238
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by super termoli
If Merc tried to make surface drives, it would be a situation of all-out competition and then I would not be surprised to see say Twin Disc make a sterndrive and I bet they could make a pretty good one. And that would be bad news for Merc.
Hmmmm , could be. Leave everyone keep their own little niche.
mopower is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2003, 09:07 PM
  #7
Banned
 
cuda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Deland, Florida
Posts: 25,191
Default

I agree with ST. Merc has the builders by the short hairs.
Attached Thumbnails
Kaama/Arneson??-jgriffkaama.jpg  
cuda is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2003, 09:49 PM
  #8
Charter Mod
Charter Member
 
BLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: E Dock
My Boats: Cigarette - "90MPH" Edition
Posts: 6,551
Default

I agree surface drive are the ultimate. I would have a set in a second.

I think Merc gears toward the major market though because they are a bit more user friendly than surface drive setups.

Surface drives require more respect when handling the boat in different situations. Most boaters on any waterway haven't even heard of surface drives.

I also think there has to be a specific reason why Merc hasn't tapped the market. They dominate their sterndrive market, endless money, and have deep R&D resouces. They could market it with ease.

I would love to know why. I'm sure they could give me an answer though.
BLee is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2003, 06:53 AM
  #9
Registered
 
super termoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 647
Default

Yep, handling is another issue. Most people have had sterndrives for their whole life and they are comfortable with them. They do not necessarily want to learn new tricks associated with surface drives. As for Merc, I really think that they are trying to stick to their core business, to stuff they're good at, rather than face very able and powerful competitors in the surface drive market. And it's understandable because Mercury make a pretty good product. If you've assimilated the powerboating culture, ie. if you flush your engines, think about saving your drives during starts and in the rough, pull the boat out of the water every time... something like the HP525 plus Bravo XR is a very fun package to have. And you don't want to ruin a good thing so there they are, doing what they do...
super termoli is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2003, 10:03 AM
  #10
Registered
 
magnum27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Chat TN
My Boats: Magnum Starfire, Phantom svl
Posts: 733
Default

I would have to say that merc did try to get into the surface drive market but hardly anyone would order it. Remember the Blackhawk? It was a trim-able surface piercing dual prop drive. I thought it was a neat idea. Kind of a cross between a Bravo and an Arneson. But it did not last very long and only a couple of manufacturers offered them on their boats. The only thing about the Blackhawk was that it was not as reliable and simple in design as an Arneson. It had to many gears and internal parts like a normal out-drive. But a good effort by Mercruiser non the less.
magnum27 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
vette131
American Offshore
3
05-02-2008 12:14 PM
eastsideoffshore
General Q & A
3
11-13-2007 12:34 PM
nordic95
Drives and Lower Units
3
09-04-2007 11:04 PM
FLYWITHME
General Boating Discussion
5
11-08-2005 11:34 AM
Poorsche
Formula
2
12-09-2004 06:19 PM



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:56 PM.


Copyright 2011 OffShoreOnly. All rights reserved.