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which boat. Saundra had a few. I remember the yellow mastercraft or Ski Nautique simply called the "Rhino". Kenny had a white magnum called the the "monster" before "Lil Rhino"
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Another Trivia Question... Dont answer this Rich... Why is the Bertram 49er named that if shes only 38' long?
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Don in the Cary "Cigarette" This is certainly one of my favorite boat pics ever. Currently wallpaper at work.
BTW, I shrunk the pic a bit. If anyone wants a fullsize, just drop me an email...... use the one in my profile or [email protected] |
I believe the "Bertram 49'er" was named after Dupont's "Kevlar 49", which is now known as just "Kevlar". This was one of the first Kevlar race boats.
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Robert gets the prize...
OK... who was Don's fav. Mechanic...hint, he later opened his own prop shop in Hollywood and is now deceased. |
Knocky House??
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Originally posted by THEJOKER Never ever debate T2x in offshore trivia. There's just too much stuff in that guy's head! BH T2x:p |
Originally posted by T2x Ah! Grasshopper...... you are beginning to see the light.... T2x:p My point was not to debate you in offshore trivia, I will surley loose if I try. My only point was that Bertram did not pursue production of vee-bottom sport boats for the public. Nor did Glastron pursue the offshore sport boat market (to any real degree). And the point of that point...... Aronow's products dominated. As for the other makers from across the pond, well, where are they? Where were they, ever, for that matter. A smattering of non-production race boats at best. Don't get me wrong here T2x,,,,, I don't mean to ruffle feathers or question your historical facts. We were just debating the significance of Aronow's contributions to the sport. I'll stop now before you belittle me into an embarrassing submission with your superior knowledge on this subject. My points are really just opinions of an Aronow fan. :) You have the court big guy. Dave |
Originally posted by ThirdBird As for the other makers from across the pond, well, where are they? Where were they, ever, for that matter. A smattering of non-production race boats at best. Basically Aronow manufactured a smattering of non production race boats himself...... The actual production of consumer hulls generally resulted after he sold the companies to someone else....... Formula , for instance, bears little resemblance to the company Aronow founded..... and sold...... almost on the same day. Don't get me wrong here T2x,,,,, I don't mean to ruffle feathers or question your historical facts. We were just debating the significance of Aronow's contributions to the sport. T2x......... |
Whether Don designed the boats or not, he was still responible for starting the boat companies that we have today.
Of course there were others, but he was luck or should I say had enough money to make a name for himself. Ask anyone who knows little about speed boats and I am sure they will say; "Aren't those Cigarette Boats?" That's what I call branding. There are a lot of others who deserve more credit. It happended to be an era that powerboating became more popular and he happened to be in a good spot. Good for him! Just my opinion, Panther |
As Don Aronow's PR man for many years,covering his many exploits as associate editor of POWERBOAT magazine during the same era and author-publisher of the book SEARACE...I was impressed with some of the OSO posts on Don which I found informative.
As a man, the 6'3", 218 pound Aronow was a bull on shore but more so at sea where he actually appeared to be fearless although he had little real seamanship smarts. He also had a ace in the late Knocky House who was his engine man and riding mechanic for many years. And although Don got the credit for years, he never designed any of his famous hulls which came from the drawing boards of men like Ken Schoell and the Walt Walters-Jim Wynne team. Few men could match the big New Yorker's fierce will to win in boats of his own make in every kind of sea known. As some of the forum contributors brought out, Aronow could be cute in his business dealings but I can not recall, with one exception, anybody ever claiming he actually cheated them. He was also a master in promoting his own personally tested craft then selling the company, only to form another one with a better product and build it down the street. This tactic prompted new buyers to insist on a no compete clause in their contracts. After one buyer put that in in his contract that Aronow could build only a dozen hulls a year, Don called his next company Squadron X11! Unfortunately, fellow racer, boatbuilder and drug smuggler Ben Kramer thought Aronow had cheated him when he backed out on a deal to buy his USA Racing Team and allegedly didn't return all of his money! Aronow reneged on the deal when the US Customs said their contract with USA Racing Team would be cancelled if the known drug smuggler bought it. And for the name of Don's killer being known. It is! He is Robert Young who's plea of no contest probably saved Kramer from the chair. Without a guilty plea, apparently the law couldn't send Kramer to the chair oin on a murder one rap. And believe it or not, Young never served a single day or paid a single dollar fine for the hit on Aronow! Justice al la American style, the presiding judge on the case sentenced Young to 19 years in jail then gave him credit for time served on a previous crime! Young was released back on the streets! He has reportedly been arrested on a new crime and is back in jail! John Crouse II |
Originally posted by john crouse famous hulls which came from the drawing boards of men like Ken Schoell T2x;) |
Thanks for posting John.:cool:
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Originally posted by magnum-bankshot which boat. Saundra had a few. I remember the yellow mastercraft or Ski Nautique simply called the "Rhino". Kenny had a white magnum called the the "monster" before "Lil Rhino" Kenny also had the "Shear Blade" a 48' sport fish and an old wood red Lymann with some BIG engines named "WHOPPER". His last boat was a 32'Cary open also named "Whopper" Did you used to visit the Tiki Bar in Emerald City back in the day? |
Lee,
Ken and Saundra had a place in the keys. thats how i knew them. Havnt seen either in at least 15 years. What was the name of his chris craft roamer? rainmn Knocky house for sure.... |
Dismissing his importance to performance boating just because Don may not have designed the boats, is like dismissing Henry Ford's contributions to automobiles because he didn't invent them.
Just my opinion. |
Originally posted by cuda Dismissing his importance to performance boating just because Don may not have designed the boats, is like dismissing Henry Ford's contributions to automobiles because he didn't invent them. Just my opinion. |
but his next step was always to package and peddle these same "brands" to other unsuspecting folk who bought into his "legend" nonsense. Heck.... it still goes on today. Cigarette Boats have lasted as both a product and a name that Don built. They are a wanted commodity with a robust history. Many campare Cig ownership to Harley-Davidson, with a better history behing the name. I have never heard anyone brag about the roots of a Cig by saying it was built by an honest man of ethical nature. I usually hear words like "Drug Runners, Race Boats, Smuggler, Murder, Unbreakable, and Value" as Cigarette owners talk about the history behind the name. Come to think of it I have yet to hear about layup times and R&D??? So people have Cigarettes for two reasons, The Ride and the History. Don Aronow is behind that. I would call that an accomplishment worth giving credit for. |
Cigarette still has ome of the same employees that worked for Mr Aronow. I know Orlando is still at Cigarette. He was supposed get off work around 3 o'clock and Mr Aronow was shot right before then. The cops would not let anybody leave the plant until late in the evening. BH
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Good reading for sure. 1 hour past my bedtime but after 5 days out of town I had a bunch to read on this post.
I tend to agree with the fact he was a big player in the industry vice designer. As a Donzi owner I have always been interested in the Cig/Magnum line of boats from the past/present. Never seen a Magnum in person. I personally think many of the boats discussed in this thread in todays market are over rated and way over priced. Bryan Was on an newer OL which IMHO was just an everyday boat minus power. |
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Here are two pics of Don driving my dad's 28SS back in 1976.
LS JR. |
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Wow, great stuff LS!!!
I`ve been a fan of Don Aronow for well over 20 yrs and from what I have seen there are very few photos of Don A. other than promo stuff. Love the oldies!!! Kurt :cool: |
Nice pics Lucky strike......
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After reading both books.....Blue Thunder and Speed Kills......there is one guy who I would love to hear from........and that would be Brownie.....he doesn't post often....and when he does...it is usually short and to the point....but I would imagine that if anyone has some great insight concerning the man.....he would definitely be one of them......so how about it Brownie....can you shed any light????
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Random replies and thoughts:
1. Brownie and Don were friends....don't expect a true friend to "dish" to complete strangers who are working on little more than morbid curiosity. 2. I'll give you the Cigarette-Harley comparison as a good one........................ It's more about the brand than anything amazing about the product...but there is a charisma.... 3. The performance boat industry would be much like it is today......had Don not been involved....... the evolution of the Mercruiser products would have pushed the envelope regardless. 4. I am finding out that many of you consider Don a hero or a legend........ true or not, perception is, of course, everything..... but have you ever stopped to consider why you feel this way? As I said.....if Crouse hadn't trumpeted the bigger than life tales to you..... Don would not be in your consciousness. Did you know that Dick Genth was a fighter pilot...... or that Odell Lewis rarely wore shoes?...... or that Billy Sirois was one of the two best boat racers of all time?...... no?.....why? Simple answer....none of them bothered to hire a PR guy....... IMHO y'all bought into an early infomercial...and years of echos. 5. Don was a big guy, a good boat racer, and a marketing maven....... and maybe that's enough. T2x |
T2x:
You are right on the money , again! Just think if Will Smith @ Phantom would only get a PR Guy! HAHA- BH |
Originally posted by T2x 1. Brownie and Don were friends....don't expect a true friend to "dish" to complete strangers who are working on little more than morbid curiosity. Jeesh,,,,,, WTF kind of comment is that??? 3. The performance boat industry would be much like it is today......had Don not been involved....... the evolution of the Mercruiser products would have pushed the envelope regardless. I think the evolution of the hulls/materials pushed Mercruiser as much as Mercruiser pushed the hulls. IMHO y'all bought into an early infomercial...and years of echos. Man T2, you need to give this thing a rest. Your negative commentaries are starting to get nasty. Whats' your big problem with this guy anyway. He's freakin' dead man, leave him alone for Christ's sake!! T2x [/B] |
Originally posted by T2x Random replies and thoughts: 1. Brownie and Don were friends....don't expect a true friend to "dish" to complete strangers who are working on little more than morbid curiosity. T2x Craig |
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Originally posted by thirdbird 1. Brownie and Don were friends....don't expect a true friend to "dish" to complete strangers who are working on little more than morbid curiosity. Jeesh,,,,,, WTF kind of comment is that??? Ummmm.... a good one?.....if you've ever had a friend? T2x |
Originally posted by ThirdBird :-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Thirdbird 3. The performance boat industry would be much like it is today......had Don not been involved....... the evolution of the Mercruiser products would have pushed the envelope regardless. I think the evolution of the hulls/materials pushed Mercruiser as much as Mercruiser pushed the hulls. T2x |
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Originally posted by Thirdbird IMHO y'all bought into an early infomercial...and years of echos. Man T2, you need to give this thing a rest. Your negative commentaries are starting to get nasty. Whats' your big problem with this guy anyway. He's freakin' dead man, leave him alone for Christ's sake!! I believe he is the subject of this thread...and I didn't start it...... I'm giving you a first hand perspective...from a guy who saw this whole era happen...and knows the principals. I'm asking that you simply assess my points in this discussion...... and consider the amount of coverage Aronow got...in the context of reality...not romantic notions...... I was a big Hopalong Cassidy fan....once upon a time..... Now I realise that he never really saved the girl, nor caught the bad guys..... He was, however, a very good actor...with a great "hook". ( a good guy wearing black). I'm also a big Rolling Stones fan...... They, on the other hand..... actually made the music...... and still do.... Aronow was somewhere in between. T2x |
I swear if it wasn't for T2x the truth would never be told. T2x, you're 90% of the reason I read this board. Some people don't like to hear the truth. Personally I do and I'm glad your willing to say it. Thank you.
Brian |
Originally posted by Too Old Don stands alone as one of ........... T2x |
Rich, you are on the $ IMHO. Thanks for mentioning Dick. He was one of the true greats.
Say hi to Darren |
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Originally posted by Too Old Don Aronow was truely larger than life. |
Originally posted by Too Old Whether Don designed his hulls or not is irrelevant, at least to me. How many designers have toiled away in obscurity? Don obviously understood boats, business and people. One measure of a great businessman is his ability to recognize his own short comings. Another is his ability to surround himself with the best people possible to overcome those deficiencies. I believe Don Aronow did that. Don stands alone as the most recognizable and successful character involved in offshore racing and boat building. He his still spoken of with reverence after all these years. The companies Don Aronow started are still the most recognizable names in all of offshore. I've considered myself a fan of the man and his accomplishments since my first Donzi in 1969. Don Aronow was truely larger than life. |
Originally posted by Too Old Ah Rich, I hate it when you're right.:D T2x |
Now I have to bring back Great Moments in Vee Bottom History............ to really tic off Craig 2testy.
T2x |
"GREAT MOMENTS IN V BOTTOM HISTORY (Post #1)
1959 Ray Hunt designs Bertram 31 "moppie" First V step hull (Step refers to longitudinal strakes) Boat immediately wins Miami Nassau race by a huge margin and establishes deep vees as the rough water planing design of choice, combining strength and performance. 1962 Don Aronow creates Formula 233 (copies Bertram with sexier lines) Hailed as a "break through". This makes offshore racing available to more people. 1964 Don Aronow creates Donzi (copies Formula with sexier lines)Hailed as a "break through". 1965 Paul Allison creates the "pad bottom" , first change in Ray Hunt's design that actually meant anything. 1966 Don Aronow creates Magnum (copies Donzi with sexier.etc, Throws a Schultz tunnel hull in for some obscure reason) 1969 Don Aronow creates Cigarette (copies Magnum without the Schultz Hydrokat) 1970 Don Aronow hires John Crouse as PR guy and is immediately Canonized as the second coming of Thomas Edison and Albert Einstein with a little Paul Bunyan thrown in for good measure. 1976 George Linder creates Challenger 21 arguably the greatest Vee bottom ever. 1981 Don Aronow creates The Squadron ( just a copy of Cigarette) 1981 Reggie Fountain aftermarkets Excaliburs, calls them Executioners and becomes the inventor of the Vee bottom....takes out pages of advertizing, and people actually believe him. 1981 Shadow puts a step on the revamped Challenger 21 and creates the world's first production stepped V bottom...admitting that the idea came from 1930's era runabouts and Sea plane floats.... Design is immediately discarded because there is no speed increase and the boat turns dangerously. 1982 Don Aronow creates the Apache 41 (Never gets a good night's sleep again). 1986 Don Aronow creates the "Blue Thunder" and a few years later is found dead of a gun shot wound. Early rumors that irate Blue Thunder owners killed him are squashed when Ben Kramer is implicated(irate Company owner). 1987. Hustler buys old Signature molds and creates new old Signatures. 1988 Fountain Powerboats creates the world's first ugly hook nosed bow and calls it an original "design change"..... and people believe him. 1993 Reggie Fountain invents the "stepped Vee"...again.......claims it's much faster .... and people believe him. 19931/2 Every other Vee bottom manufacturer invents the stepped Vee bottom ...again... all of them are no faster than older models, but turn worse. 1996 Now that steps are considered State-of -the-Art, manufacturers turn to styling and graphics to jack up prices. Except Reggie who just charges a lot anyway...and people believe him. 1997 Mike Allweiss invents Factory class racing (or maybe it was Gene Whipp), believing that the public wants to watch 37 year old technology with sea plane bottom modifications flailing around in semi hysterical bedlam. This is considered "The Next Great Motorsport". Jersey Speed Skiff racers immediately protest, citing that they have had an exclusive on bizarre racing with antique designs for years. 1998 Manufacturers rise to the challenge and reduce weights in "competition" models to the point where they are useless in both rough and calm water. 1998 Pleasure boaters adopt all of this crap and put it to use in Poker Runs..... 2001. 38' Whiz bang barrel rolls in Atlantic City injuring passenger. Boat has Vee bottom with Steps. Other people report similar mishaps all over the U. S. (World?). 2001 Ray Hunt spins in his grave. " T2x T2x, It seems pretty obvious how you feel about Don, but if you read your own first post to this thread it seems that Don is mentioned more than anyone else. ??? Granted you don't portray him in a positive way, regardless even you seem to agree he is/was of major historical importance. ;) |
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