Rich,
Please accept my apology if I offended you, it wasn't meant that way.:) I'm just not as good as Fred at expressing myself. I'm not ready to stand up on the soapbox and rant about how great of a person DA was, he had his faults as we all do, but I am a fan of his boats.

Craig

Heres my copy. A little wrinkled at the top and bottom, but good shape otherwise.

I have a question which I have never gotten straight answers for.

Who really designed the 41' Apache?

To me it looks like a streched/modified Flat Deck 38' Cigarette??

Not trying to stirr the pot, these two boats are among my favorites and just would like to know the real story.\\

Panther.

Well...let me see...I mentioned Don 8 times...and Reggie three times. I'll have to admit that Aronow is 2.66 times as significant as Fountain.........or at the very least 2.66 times taller.......

T2x:p

In truth....probably Jean-Claude Simon....or Harry Schoell....but that's another story.

T2x

My favorite is the Apache.................41.... was there another?

T2x

Was it designed or just made ???

;)

Uh oh there goes this thread - Apache! BH

My vote is for Fred!!!:p

Interesting!

I figured Don didn't do the "design" work and that his team did it.

Panther, t2x used the words truth and probably in the same sentence.Seems a little too vague for me.T2x, start another story;)

T2x.......I am not asking Brownie to give us a complete rundown of his relationship and inner most thoughts about Don.....my point was and is....that if anyone had any insight into the man, he certainly would be one of them, and if he thought he might feel inclined to share his opinions on what has been expressed on this thread.....we would be very interested in hearing what he had to say......thats all.....I am not asking him to betray a friend....it is obvious to me after reading your posts and Too Olds comments that Don is not exactly high on your most admired people in offshore history list....so be it....everyone is entitled to their opinion....and although you may be more qualified in many aspects, I can take it or leave it......I appreciate your candor for sure.....that is one of the things that makes this website what it is....guys like you and Brownie giving us a glimpse of what things were really like back in the day so to speak......thanx...Rich

In truth my vote goes to jc for the 41 apache. The bottom started as a 33' cary. narrowed and streched.

Lotoparty...email me

on its way.

Magnum,

Do you know "for sure" who did it? Maybe Bob S. can help me out?

I think it is funny reading credit being taken away from Don for designs. He had designers working for him at many of his companies and paid them to do there jobs. Thus, the designs belong to the company and the company and credit for said designs belong to Don. Do we all think Enzo Ferrari is a fraud because Pinnin Farina did most of his design work? No! He was a leader who compiled a workforce, that formed a company, that made a moving work of art, that we call Ferrari. Much the same as Don had designers (Either as independents or employee's) who created what we know today as Magnum, Cigarette, Squadron, Apache, Etc. History recognizes the men that bring a product to the people. That is the name that is recognized. Tesla made the light bulb, not Edison, but did not market himself, Oops! Don may not have put pen to paper, but he paid for the ink and earned bragging rights.
T2x, I as a NFG to a dying sport who's heroes are long in the past and current runners are more willing to compare trust funds at the docks rather than battle with balls in the water (Go ahead boys, start bashing me) respect the racers of the past and that includes there faults. Don was a self promoter... Thats great, I have more respect for him now than ever. The fact that he was confident enough to hire Crouse to build a larger than life image shows verve. He wanted to lead the pack with a big name, and command presence. That is commendable of an industry leader. And when you own as many companies as Don did, you are a leader. Your opinions have been less than inspiring but have not been taken as insulting. You lived in an era and area that most of us did not and are shedding a bit of reality on our Mythical character. But truth be told, I still think the guy did great things (Building companies and self promotion) and, the stories he left behind are worth telling, accurate or not!
Thank you for your opinions and reflections.

Good post :cool:

A friend of mine's father still has two of those Donzi's he bought new in the 70's here on Lake Murray . One is OB and the other I/O. We lived on those boats when we were kids, a lot of memories. I have kidded him over the years about selling them (rarely if ever uses them now) and he say's they will NEVER sell. A lot of attachment to those old boats. They were the Chit back in the day.

I dont think anyone is calling Don a fraud. Not even close, nor are we debating his keen marketing ability, but this is a historical post and we history buffs like to hear the facts.

For example, how many atomic bombs did we drop on Japan at the end of the 2nd world war... most would say 2, but the truth is 3. Does that mean that one who would write that is being critical of the us... not at all. By the way, the third bomb was dropped shortly after the first two, once Japan surrendered. They ammassed thier ships in a cluster and we dropped a big one on them to distroy thier navy.

As far as designing boats, Don DID come up with the idea to cut the Cary 9-4 profile down to 8-6 which is what most cigarettes, apaches, warpathes, etc, etc are today. Don Designed that. Period! While he has been critisized for the USA 39, those who used the boat in patrol/ interdiction, myself included, think it's one of the best utility boats ever built. Her 12' beam made her a stable craft for boardings and she had just enough speed to get you where you had to go and not enough to keep the cowboys from hurting themselves.... Anyone who thinks you need speed to catch smugglers has been watching too much "Miami Vice". Smuggling boats...go-fast smuggling boats, unloaded, are some of the slowest in thier class.

The Customs product....this was designed to do exactly what it did, and designed by Don,,,as in his idea, his vision. There were no un-met expectaions on the part of the Customs service.

Anyone who thinks that I, Rich or John are being critical, think again. Don was a friend, and unlike many on this forum, I not only knew him, but sharred many meals with the man and found him to be a facinating individual with a keen sense of human understanding.

Hull design is not about designing as much as it is about discovering what works best. This is why one can not patent a hull "design" or an aircraft's aerodynamics as a design for that matter... you ever look around an airport and wonder why all the commercial jetliners look the same, despite the fact that they are manufactured by at least a doz different manufactureres... because they have a basic aerodynamic design that works and that design worked before they ever thought of it, it just hadnt been discovered yet. The way air molecules react to a foreign body traveling through it, or water molecules for that mater...it has been in the universal design for billions of year......in the the public domain and once discovered free for anyone to use. Hull design is the same principal. By the way, dont ever talk to Harry Schoal about this because he still thinks you can patent a hull, and you may get a patent number..etc., but will it stand up in court. No, and this has been tested time and again.

Too old,

i dont know if you do this or not, but if you ever go to EBAY and type in aronow, there is this guy who sells all kinds of old Donzi, cigarette, magnum ads. Its kind of interesting to see. And ist also interesting to see how many different companies used Don in thier ads

Thanks for clarifying! Very cool!!

Point taken.......... That's why they make Ice Cream in more than one flavor....... not everyone likes Vanilla.

Happy New Year...... and

Rest in Peace Don Aronow... on that we all agree.

T2x

I appreciate the mark he made on the Offshore Powerboating World. Rest in Peace Don Aronow.

Magnum Bank Shot. Who are you? You are certainly a fountain of misinformation. Aronow built the 35' plug, and let it sit for two years before he produced it. It was not part of the wider hull. The standard Cary/Cigarette bottom ran out of stability at about 81 mph. The 35 (which is the mother of most of the hi-perf stuff today) had "Knuckle" chines, which ran parallel to the keel for over 10 feet, instead of ascending after 3 feet. Just thought you might want to know.

As always I have to look up to T2x. (Brownie and GJL as well). Having been around this sport for some time I consider and honor and priveledge to call T2x a friend. So many enter this sport and becuase they have a fast boat they think they know all there is to know. Or because they heard some guys around the local HP shop talk about racing they think they are encyclopedia's on the history of the sport. Fact is as a general rule most people don't like the truth. Whether it is about themselves or someone or something they look up to. What I admire about guys like T2x so much, is their absolute candor. I was always taught that is the way to be, because like it or not the truth is the truth. Thank you T2x, Brownie and others for always calling it how you see it whether or not the is the popular thing to do. There are still those of us who admire and appreciate blunt honesty.

Shane

and opinions are opinions ;)

Re: Don Aronow the man , myth , and legend
 

the shear blade was a 54 foot concord, and the roamer was called the lil" whopper

Re: Don Aronow the man , myth , and legend
 

it was a 28 foot mirage, one of the first i believe and the only boat powered by roush racing

Re: Don Aronow the man , myth , and legend
 

I think thats ok as long as you don't make faster boats for the police in the days when the police had no clue.

Re: Don Aronow the man , myth , and legend
 

don't talk chit about stecz like that! btw are you bringing your gal to the miami show? if you do, be careful cuz stecz will be there :evilb:

Re: Don Aronow the man , myth , and legend
 

This thread is from a long time ago, long before I joined OSO, so I just wanted to put my .02cents in.

Here is photo of Don that is hardly ever published. It is a photo of Don giving a gift of over a half a million dollars to a black university near Atlanta, Georgia.

Where is the story about one of his workers from Cuba who was saving for a fishing boat so he could go make a living like he did in Cuba. Don found out, and the guy had a new fish boat the next week, and Don had one less employee.

How come I never read the stories about the times when the economy turned down in the 70's. No boats were being sold.
Don told the guys at Cigarette, Nobody gets laid off, just keep making boats and put them in the yard.

I only know from my own experince. In the fall of 1963, I was a gofer for Mike Gordon's race team in Miami. He was running a new 27 foot Formula he bought from Don in the Miami Key West race. Don even "loaned" him a compass which was lost in the race.

Over the following years, I was more than a pain in the butt hanging around Formula, Donzi, Magnum, Cigarette and promising that someday, someday, I would buy a race boat.

Don always treated me with respect, never made me feel any less than the rich guys who walked in and paid cash. When I finally could afford it, he helped me to start my own boat company, helped train my workers, sold me molds right from the Cigarette line, had engines built for me and finally , rigged my first race boat for me.

Was he tough, competitive and ruthless....damn right, he competed in everything he did...that was his make up and he lived his own life. But, he was also a very funny and generous man.

I can only say that he was my friend, and I am glad that I am fortunate to be able to say that.

Re: Don Aronow the man , myth , and legend
 

Great post.

Re: Don Aronow the man , myth , and legend
 

What can you say...seems Don was like the rest of us very human and had an Ego.
But offending Meyer Lansky wasn´t that clever?

Re: Don Aronow the man , myth , and legend
 

Hi guys, i have been reading this thread for a while and realized that no one has mentioned Reggie Fountain who started his company in 1979.....if Don was not in the picture we would still have the offshore powerboats of today. I think Reggie is a stand up guy who has raced for over 20 something years and Don was a fly by the seat of your pants type of guy who lived on the edge.....Don will always be talked about and rembered and it would be interesting what boats would be around today if he was still around.....The whole apache story is also very interesting and i think it is the excitement/thrill that draws us to these stories of the past!

Re: Don Aronow the man , myth , and legend
 

that's because the thread is about aronow...

:)

Re: Don Aronow the man , myth , and legend
 

I know but some of the guys were saying that if Don was not around there would not be the same bad azz cig's of today......but Reggie has been around for a long time thus.....we would still have the boats of today......thats all

Re: Don Aronow the man , myth , and legend
 

i know what yer sayin man...i wuz just havin some fun with ya...

That guy who is driving the 45 ft aronow is my dad - Byng Goode. Who owned and sold Midnight Express in the late 80's.