Why Get A Boat Surveyed? Has this happened to you?
 

I had my 35 cigarette surveyed. By a NAMS certified surveyor. She gave the boat a great bill of health. Structually sound and a great buy. But when I pulled the engine this winter I found a transom that is Extremely rotted. Now she is telling me that there is no way she could have detected the rot with the means that all surveyors use in the business. If that is the case then why have a boat surveyed. Has anyone else had this happen to them?

it's hard to find a good surveyer.. but i think she should have picked that uup with a water meter... that one she shoulh have gotten... anything she tells you different is just wrong

sorry to hear about this

Is a survey ever worth getting? If the surveyor isn't responsible for their opinion. Now I'm stuck with $8000 in repairs

if you get a good saleman.. they can normally tell you more that's wrong with the boat than most of the poeple that survey boat.. everything on the lot here.. i can just tell you want needs to be done with it...

man that sucks:(
i used a guy im florida on a boat i was looking at.
he used (in his words) new IR technology to check the boat for the slitest amout of moisture.
it came back dry as a bone.

here in fla.. there are some good people and know what to look for in a suvey.. but for 75usd and two weeks later I"M A SURVEYOR... that's it...

Ive seen good and bad ones. Then do it all yourself too. Hammer the entire hull looking for soft spots. I found trouble with my transom to that 2 surveyors missed.

Wow, that amazing. I bought the boat out of florida.

The only reason I used a surveyor on my big boat (34' go-slo) was because the insurance company said no survey=no insurance. I asked around, and got a guy with a good rep, who I feel did an excellent job. Found a couple of things I had missed, as I was not all that familiar with a larger cabin cruiser. Issued me a nice report that showed I had gotten a great deal, which will come in handy at sale time, for sure. My Donzi, which is only 22' did not require a survey, and I didnt get one, and I have never had a problem with it. Well, normal old-boat issues, but nothing major.

As for the soggy transom....The surveyor should have had caught it. Maybe she didnt want to pay for the moisture meter? Did she have a good rep before doing your boat?? Did you check around? sorry to hear of your situation, and i hope that's the only thing that is wrong.

formula31 What did those survyers say about missing the soft spots?

Cool loto. Do you have a name and number for this guy. What part or town in FLA?? If you want you can PM me the info, or post it here.

TIA. chris

She had a great reputation and an impressive resume. And still missed. I cut the inner skin of the transom away and the wood just fell out soaking wet.

if it was that bad and you didn't even get a second season out of the boat.. she should do something to make things right with you.. a water meter would have gone off with-in six feet of the boat then..

customrigger101 Thats what kills me. I found the rot when I hit the transom with the water from a hose. She's telling me that with a moisture meter and plastic hammer for soundings. she couldn't detect the rot from the exterior of the transom.

I know a buddy that payed for a survey on a boat in the Mystic Seaport...we flew all the way from LAX To JFK... rented a car .... drove all the way to Mystic... only to find that the surveyor must have either been blind... payed off by the seller... or just plain stupid... everything on the transom was practically rotted away from corrosion... the boat had sat in salt water for years... got to the boat yard just in time to catch the seller "frosting" everything with JB weld and spraying with paint... The seller actually thought that he could hide massive amounts of corrosion by covering it with epoxy and painting over..... The funniest part was when we were standing there with our jaws hanging out looking at the camouflage job he was doing on the outdrives.... he announces to us with this comical New Englander accent in his voice..... " Don't even bother looking at it gentlemen..... It's already sold.... the new owner is going to be here any moment"...... roflmao.... I guess he was expecting someone dressed in black wearing gold chains. Little did he know, for at that moment... there was no new owner.... AND THE SURVEYOR HAD SAID THERE WERE NO SIGNS OF CORROSION.

SKRAMER,
I just bought a boat in Jupiter, FLA not knowing the hull or any surveyors, I went on my own investigation. Flew down from NJ and then had 3 days to make a decision before my flight back. Started by asking the dock master at the marina the boat was stored. Got some great info from this guys and couple other workers there, including usage, care, problems, maintenance. Went over to the mechanic and asked what he'd kind of work he'd done with this boat. Asked them all their unbiased opinions. They had nothing to gain or lose, and gave me honest answers. I went unannounced and the owner met me there after I spoke to people.

Did not even give him a chance to warm the boat up or prep it for the test ride :) When owner arrived 2 hours after I'd already been there checking it out. We fork lifted it into water and fired her up (cold) and went for a spin. Then I asked around (my father lives there) got 4-5 names of recommended surveyors and at that point I was pretty much stuck using the one who could fit me in his shedule during the next 2 day period.

All in all I was not too impressed with the survey. He checked the outdrives, engines, compression and general things. No moisture meter just 'sounded' the hull and said it was solid. I am hopeful nothing major was missed, but for the money I paid for the survey I got what I expected and a report to go with. I wondered too what if something goes drastically wrong, what recourse do we have with that surveyor or piece of paper :confused: :(

The tramsom of a performance boat takes alot af stress. what happens when I'm running at 60mph in 4 footers and my outdrive goes flying over my head. All I'll get for a responce from a survery is I couldn't detect that.

Jeff Hahn

1-866-533-3424
[email protected]

travels all over florida. not sure where his home base is.
after the salemen screwed me out of the boat (see bad busines section), Jeff offered to survey another one for free. good guy!

Last 2 boats surveyed for customers:
Boat 1-
Reputable surveyor that I have used many times and it was his second time to survey the same boat (he did the survey when the seller was the buyer) Gave me a 4 page list of the usual B.S. stuff I.E., Chaffed hose, discolored exhaust etc. Nothing structural. Said the boat was in great shape. Boat ships out of state and I get pics sent my way. I could not believe the stuff they found. I canceled the check with an explanation and the guy had the nerve to ask me to only pay half. Two people in the industry that I respect almost went to lawyers over the affair and it was started by a surveyor. Had I not been paying the guy, I would have taken a closer look myself, a mistake I have not made sense.
Boat 2-
Surveyor writes a list of items missing on the boat and hands it to me as I go to pay him. I read the list:
No Anchor
No Porta Potti
No Fire extinguishers
it went on and on.
So I asked him back on the boat. Showed him the Vacu flush head with holding tank and pumpout, anchor locker (to which he was impressed one was installed), and 4 fire extinguishers including Halon in the engine compartment.
Paid him and told him to expedite the paperwork to the bank.
Most banks will require a surveyor to write up a boat. Most surveyors don't know a thing about High Performance boats, but will fake it for one simple reason...They charge by the foot, and we like em big, 29, 32,35,38,42, and now 46 and 50. That adds up. Banks dont require engine surveys which are the most expensive thing to replace.
would I hire a surveyor again for an accurate account of the boat? Hell No!
I would however fly a rigger in from wherever and have an engine shop do some investigating.
Live and learn! Then share with others.

Thanks loto .. sounds like a fair guy.

I need to know If anyone has ever sued a surveyor due to negligence. (missing a transom that is totally rotted)

A rotted transom?:eek:

That is unexcuseable!!!:hothead:

As it has been said before, they have meters that detect moisture. For her to say that she couldn't tell the transom was wet is way out of line.
She may not have been able to tell you how rotted it was, but at least she could of told you it was wet.
The Knocker test works good too...;)

I talked to them about it but they both had reasonable excuses, well it was a case of how far can you expect them to go. I blame the boat builder more than the surveyor. The outer portions of the transom were blasa cored!!. Since there was a 1/4"+ of glass and gelcoat on the outside and another on the inside, it felt and sounded pretty solid, until I did a stern landing and ripped the k-planes right off the transom almost sinking it. The boat when checked had been out of the water for a while so there was no moisture signature. I still think an experienced surveyor should know about stuff like this and have the appropriate equipment to check for it. But then, think again about the manufacturer. Especially on a tank like mine with a full cabin. Many of the interior designs make it nearly impossible to get at stringers and bulkheads without tearing the boat apart. So the idea that a surveyor is going to ever be able to give a 100% ok on a boat just isnt realistic. Personally, if I were a surveyor and had any question about an area, I would ask the owner or dealer to have a small hole drilled in that spot to check it. Maybe a good idea for all older boats transoms.

makes me think she didn't even look at the motors or anything to aft

Surveyor gave a fairly clean bill of health to a cruiser a friend was looking at. Did mention some evidence of salt corrosion on a few areas.

Went to go drive the boat home with my friend. It had brand new outdrives and transom plates on it. Dealer said that the others had been stolen (yeah, and the transom plates, right?).

Opened the hatches. Alternator bracket rusted in two. Both waterpumps leaking and rusted. One exhaust elbow pissing a little pinhole stream right out the side.
Vacu Flush pump rotted into a white chalky nasty lump. Battery Charger with long rust stalactites hanging out of it. Several galvanic bonding ground wires missing off thru hull components, with green nast hanging off them.

Interior was damp and smelled like ocean fish.
Rubber buttons on all the Raytheon electronics were dissolved into crumbly hunks.

Boat was advertised at having new canvas. This was true. Appeared to have been sewn together with the same thread my wife uses on my underwear, and the windows AND screens were both sewn in together.

Friend didn't buy the boat.

Surveys are worthless, in my opinion. You need to find a reputable surveyor with the proper equipment and you STILL need to accompany him on the survey with your own notepad and camera.

I've done a few local surveys myself for acquaintances. I charge $350 for trailerable single. $450 for a trailerable twin. And add haulout fees if it's not trailerable.

I don't solicit the work, and have never had any surveying classes and make that known up front but I still get a call on occasion...

I've done a few surveys for people that have been burned before, and I've paid to have surveys done on boats I've purchased. Someone mentioned Jeff Hahn and his name sounds familiar. If he does surveys for Cast-A-Line Surveyors he may have done the Cigarette I bought from DJD a year ago. I only have one surveyor here in west Michigan I won't allow an a boat I have for sale, and I make that point very clear to a prospective buyer when I suggest a survey by the buyer. I trust the surveyors I hire and we go over the survey together, both before I recieve the written copy and again after I get it just so there aren't any misunderstandings. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience but I hope you get the opportunity to work with a good one in the future.

surveyors are worthless. none of them know what they are looking at or take the time to thoroughly inspect a boat. if you find a skilled and trustworthy surveyor, then please email me.

I found one that did a thorough job on the 28 Checkmate I bought. He spent several hours going over the entire boat for an insurance survey.
He has also been with the Coast Guard for a long time.
I am sure that helped a great deal as well...

Surveyors are really nothing more than marine "building inspectors". They can't really ascertain whether the boat is in good condition, due to all the places that problems can hide... Really... all they can do is tell the prospective buyer. lender. or insurer that the boat physically matches it's written description. I myself experienced fraud on a surveyors part.... When the report says no visible signs of corrosion... and the outdrives are visibly rotted away. But even a thorough survey will not turn up hidden rot and bad rigging.

I have a surveyor here in Ohio. I would recommend to anyone. He is the one that I got the second opinion from. His name is Greg Group. If you are selling a boat you don't want him suveying it. But great for buyers. I should have flown him to florida. It would have saved me alot of money and head aches. Does anyone feel that the surveyor should pick up some of the bill here or am I crazy? I wouldn't have bought a boat with a rotted transom!

ive read here before that surveys have a disclaimer in them , therefore you cant recover any losses from something they missed.

I dont' feel you can't just put a disclaimer at the end of a report. (after you do a survey). If you need a disclamer you should give it to your client first. Have them sign it then the surveyor would be free and clear. But if a surveyor told me before a survey that there was no way they could detact a rotted trandom I wouldn't use Her.

Here's a picture of my transom.

I would guess that your only recourse with the boat survey would be similar to a house inspection .... .... .... a refund of the survey/inspection cost. Unfortunately, that is only a insignificant portion of the repair bill.

Well Scott .... the "good" news is that you found this all out now .... and not while floating around in the lake wondering why one of your outdrives went for a swim !!!

Sorry to hear about this !!!

JM

Hey Skramer,
So surveyors are not responsible for missing something that serious on a survey ? Are they state licensed ? Does the state require them to carry some sort of insurance or bond ? I would think they should have some responsibility otherwise like you said "Why get a survey ?"

spend 14K and have the best survey equiptment

http://www.moisturedm.com/html/ir_vi...urefindir.html


plus you can do home energy loss IR's

I believe they do need to be licenced in the state of florida. I've been told to write letters to the Florida State licencing board, as well as NAMS. Which I will do soon. If anyone is looking for a surveyor in Florida I wouldn't recommend Recreational Marine Experts Group.(RMEG) Patricia Kearns.

if your on a budget 600.00

http://tramexltd.com/page/skipper.html

Topdj That's what every surveyor should be required to use. Next time I'll make sure My surveyor has one. Thanks for the info.