Diesel powered sport boats?
02-25-2004, 11:56 AM
#31
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Originally posted by chuck21401
....a 30ft sportboat with twin 300hp diesels. Same idea but for "bigger water." Chuck
....a 30ft sportboat with twin 300hp diesels. Same idea but for "bigger water." Chuck
Originally posted by super termoli
...I think a 2004 technology gas motor would actually be better than a 2004 technology diesel but we're simply not offered that choice. We're currently forced to choose between a 2004 diesel and something like a 1970 gasoline motor.
...I think a 2004 technology gas motor would actually be better than a 2004 technology diesel but we're simply not offered that choice. We're currently forced to choose between a 2004 diesel and something like a 1970 gasoline motor.
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Retired! Boating full-time now.
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02-25-2004, 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by C_Spray
Those engine/drive packages are out there right now. Volvo has two, and Mercury has one.
Those engine/drive packages are out there right now. Volvo has two, and Mercury has one.
02-25-2004, 04:15 PM
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There was definately a Fiore OuterLimits (42?) twin CAT diesels w/Arnesons a few weeks ago on EBay. Like 2000 or 2001, all white, with black and white checkered finish line flag graphics on the rear sides, nearer to Outerlimits oval emblems. I bid $110,000 for it 
not a prayer ... boat never met reserve and it never come back on EBay ,, yet. Description said $550,000 to build for the one owner boat. Low hours too!! 
I wish I had saved the pics or the link to the auction 
It was sweet and very economical!! LOL
not a prayer ... boat never met reserve and it never come back on EBay ,, yet. Description said $550,000 to build for the one owner boat. Low hours too!! I wish I had saved the pics or the link to the auction It was sweet and very economical!! LOL
02-25-2004, 04:46 PM
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So who do you believe -the guys that say it's torque that really drives the boat and matters?
If this is true, for a little less than $20K you can go buy a Yanmar producing 315HP engine that's making 450-500 lbs of torque and that includes a warrantied Merc Bravo X Diesel drive. (Emphasis on the warrantied drive.)
Would this be comparable to spending $25K for an HP 500 EFI and Bravo One? I don't think you can compare it to a 496HO.
And then the next step up is the 440HP making something on the order of 750-850 lbs of torque. For a smaller boat (less than 30 feet) and single engine application, you have to find a drive that can take that, and as I'm coming to find out, that can get very expensive. Plus there just don't seem to be that many single engine Arneson installations out there.
Who do you believe?
If this is true, for a little less than $20K you can go buy a Yanmar producing 315HP engine that's making 450-500 lbs of torque and that includes a warrantied Merc Bravo X Diesel drive. (Emphasis on the warrantied drive.)
Would this be comparable to spending $25K for an HP 500 EFI and Bravo One? I don't think you can compare it to a 496HO.
And then the next step up is the 440HP making something on the order of 750-850 lbs of torque. For a smaller boat (less than 30 feet) and single engine application, you have to find a drive that can take that, and as I'm coming to find out, that can get very expensive. Plus there just don't seem to be that many single engine Arneson installations out there.
Who do you believe?
02-25-2004, 05:07 PM
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For user-friendliness, acceleration, mid-range stuff and anything other than top end, torque is important, no question about it. And it's not a question of belief, it's a well-recognized fact. But your observation is 100% valid and it doesn't concern only diesel engines. There is a gap in the drive market as there is nothing between a Bravo and a #6 capable of handling a 440hp diesel or a 700 to 800hp gas motor, those two being equivalent in this case as they are both good for 700 to 800 lbs of torque. What do you do when it all becomes too much for a Bravo but you do not want to shell out for a #6? Trimax takes care of my problems but I have to admit that if you don't have a transom capable of housing it, you're pretty much lost and have to resort to stuff like B-Max, Imco, Teague which, without meaning any disrespect, are not definite answers to your drive problems... Arneson may have the right idea though. They have a new ASD6 out which has trannies in the extension boxes and is quite competitive in terms of price. Now they have to renew the whole range and make a new ASD8 which would take care of Yanmars and 700 to 900 hp V8s. For now, it's gonna have to be either shell out for a #6, redesign your transom for Trimax or shell out for ASD8 and chain boxes...
02-25-2004, 05:43 PM
#39
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I wonder about the warranty with a Yanmar 315 and a Bravo as the Yanmar's pop Bravos as fast as the 500 efi's do. It would have to be a really light weight boat to work for a long period of time.
The 440 Yanmar is packaged to the in-line ASD8 drive units on our end. The marine gear on the Yanmar takes care of the reduction, rotation and drop so it would be redundant to do this twice on a boat. These are not typically placed in small boats. Typical applications are boats over 38’ for performance boating that is so there is sufficient engine room space and the CG concerns are not an issue. But if they are, we can adjust to correct that.
The ASD8 in-line is fairly cheap at $12K ea. with a warranty.
Problem is that everyone wants a super boat speed, acceleration and such on a Bravo budget. It isn’t going to happen and that isn’t Mercury’s fault or anyone else’s. It just the way it is.
GM’s diesel engine is being marineized in Norway I believe. They were at the Miami boat show and the motor has a Whipple on it. Makes some respectable power and is not an anchor in the weight department.
Diesels are cruised at 80% of their max power or rpms. They tend to live the longest there and they get good efficiency at that point as well. The same cannot be said for the Petrol engines. GM and others could take some of BMW’s or Honda’s variable cam timing and such and make a gas engine much more efficient and powerful. The rubber cam belt would have to be changed to a chain for reliability and such but the principals are there for a better big block, I guess it’s just too easy to get the power we need with old technology rather than change to what’s available.
The 440 Yanmar is packaged to the in-line ASD8 drive units on our end. The marine gear on the Yanmar takes care of the reduction, rotation and drop so it would be redundant to do this twice on a boat. These are not typically placed in small boats. Typical applications are boats over 38’ for performance boating that is so there is sufficient engine room space and the CG concerns are not an issue. But if they are, we can adjust to correct that.
The ASD8 in-line is fairly cheap at $12K ea. with a warranty.
Problem is that everyone wants a super boat speed, acceleration and such on a Bravo budget. It isn’t going to happen and that isn’t Mercury’s fault or anyone else’s. It just the way it is.
GM’s diesel engine is being marineized in Norway I believe. They were at the Miami boat show and the motor has a Whipple on it. Makes some respectable power and is not an anchor in the weight department.
Diesels are cruised at 80% of their max power or rpms. They tend to live the longest there and they get good efficiency at that point as well. The same cannot be said for the Petrol engines. GM and others could take some of BMW’s or Honda’s variable cam timing and such and make a gas engine much more efficient and powerful. The rubber cam belt would have to be changed to a chain for reliability and such but the principals are there for a better big block, I guess it’s just too easy to get the power we need with old technology rather than change to what’s available.
02-25-2004, 05:46 PM
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I almost forgot about this. Say hello to JOLLY DRIVE. It's similar to Arnesons, made of 316 stainless steel, specifically made to suit square 12-13° transoms as an aftermarket Bravo remplacement. It's made by Cartello, the Italian importer of Yanmar engines. And guess why they developed it? Simply because they got tired of hearing: "yeah, I'd love to buy one of your engines but I don't have anything solid to hook it up to". It's also intended to be substantially cheaper than Arnesons so this may be the answer for people who do not want to shell out mega bucks for Arnesons or #6 but still want either diesel torque or 700-800 gas motors. I am not sure what the drive only price is but I believe a full package is around 45K retail. This includes a Yanmar 440, a ZF trannie, the drive with steering. I don't think it's being imported in the U.S. yet, but maybe someone ought to take care of that because there seems to be some demand...
