Question on Big SeaRays....
03-14-2004, 12:11 AM
#32
Check out my Sea Ray less then 15 hours on the motors new everything, Diesel is the absolut olny way to go, I get 35mph out of mine. Also with the size of the tanks, he would only be filling it up 4 times a year
Tom
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...threadid=68765
Tom
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...threadid=68765
03-14-2004, 01:02 AM
#33
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what about a 97 45' wellcraft w/502's? Should be in better condition since it's on a lift. (smaller wake too I hope if he comes down the BN)
http://spring.phpwebhosting.com/~oza...w=detail&id=47
http://spring.phpwebhosting.com/~oza...w=detail&id=47
Last edited by lildreamer86; 03-14-2004 at 02:49 AM.
03-14-2004, 10:53 AM
#35
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Gentlemen,
I am not trying to tell you at what MAX speed a diesel can cruise at: I am telling you that a diesel at "long range cruise setting" will be normally pushing the craft at 75% of max WOT speed (take note that this is DIFFERENT than 75% of max RPM).
And while a diesel is an iron anvil, a Class Rating E recreational performance diesel is still limited to a duty cycle of 30%, with WOT operation at full rated power intended to not exceed 8% of the operational time.
A diesel will happily run for hours and hours at a stretch at 85% of WOT, but the last 15% is not intended to be used as a "cruise" setting in a E-rated diesel (A's, B's, and C's are entirely another story).
And while 85% power is fully within the acceptable range of cruise speed, most guys still prefer to pull back some for a little better economy.
My point is that a diesel in a 40' express will cruise effortlessly at 25mph, and top out at 35mph while returning 50% better fuel economy than the gas selection that cannot plane the boat at a normal cruise power setting, and tops out at 27-28 mph.
Dudes, I've GOT a diesel. This isn't heresay (mines a 370 that weighs loaded around 18,000).
A friend has a 42 Dancer with 454's and it TOPS OUT at 21mph. Gets less than 1/2mpg trying to plane. Is useful only for slow moving (and at those slow speeds a houseboat is a better value for lake usage).
I cruise at 30mph most of the time. I top out at 38 fully loaded. I've got fuel sheets from the day it arrived and can show you that I have a 750-hour history of over 1.3 mpg. And at 26mph it gets 1.5mpg.
I can leave in the morning and travel the 230 miles to Green Turtle bay in 8 hours and wave at all the gas docks. And I don't even have to feel like I am abusing my powerplants.
A 370 with gas runs decent. When I ordered mine, it was the 5th one they had built with diesels, and I believe there are less than 20 of them total. I will never regret the decision to go diesel and can't emphasize how well I have liked it.
A gas boat labors coming onto plane. A diesel ticks off a few seconds spooling up the turbos, and then you'd better make sure everybody is sitting down. Pow. Under normal acceleration, a diesel just bulldogs its way onto plane with no sense of struggle whatsoever.
I drove a gas 370 in the Gulf when I was still trying to decide whether to spend the extra $40k on diesels. The swells that day would knock the gas boat off plane over and over. There happened to be a diesel 370 there named SlapShot, owned by a hockey player. He was there, and I asked if he minded if I looked into the engine compartment to compare the accessibility of the gas boat (the dealer told me there was a diesel 370 there I could look at). The hockey guy tol me to hop on, and off we went. The diesel boat MOWED DOWN the same water and seemed like a totally different boat. I made up my mind that day. The comparison was 308hp Cats versus 340hp Mercs. The Diesels acted like they were TWICE as powerful as the gas motors.
Mine came with 308's (the largest they'd put in it) and I have respecced mine to the 350's. That was another huge difference, and I saw no change in fuel mpg at all.
I could ramble on all day, but I beckon any big boat buyer to look hard to see if they can locate a diesel within their budget.
The statement that a gas boat will be easier to sell at LOTO than a diesel? In a 15000 pound or smaller boat, certainly. In a 40' cruiser, one ride in a diesel I would think would convert the most hardcore gas freak.
Obviously I am mistaken cause Burt doesn't agree. And this is no slam against anybody, it just shows that different people value different attributes.
I bought my cruiser to take folks places in comfort at speed. I had owned houseboats for years and speedboats, too. Had a houseboat that would run 30, but it killed me on gas and had no range at all.
If I were looking at a cruiser that would only cruise at 18mph, I'd rather swim. Give me one that will cruise at 30? I'm in. The fact that it has double the range of the gas boat, won't explode, will last for several thousand hours before rebuild, can use fuel that ha no highway tax on it, and can't monoxide your kids as they swim around it with the genset running are gravy on top.
Diesels forever.
I am not trying to tell you at what MAX speed a diesel can cruise at: I am telling you that a diesel at "long range cruise setting" will be normally pushing the craft at 75% of max WOT speed (take note that this is DIFFERENT than 75% of max RPM).
And while a diesel is an iron anvil, a Class Rating E recreational performance diesel is still limited to a duty cycle of 30%, with WOT operation at full rated power intended to not exceed 8% of the operational time.
A diesel will happily run for hours and hours at a stretch at 85% of WOT, but the last 15% is not intended to be used as a "cruise" setting in a E-rated diesel (A's, B's, and C's are entirely another story).
And while 85% power is fully within the acceptable range of cruise speed, most guys still prefer to pull back some for a little better economy.
My point is that a diesel in a 40' express will cruise effortlessly at 25mph, and top out at 35mph while returning 50% better fuel economy than the gas selection that cannot plane the boat at a normal cruise power setting, and tops out at 27-28 mph.
Dudes, I've GOT a diesel. This isn't heresay (mines a 370 that weighs loaded around 18,000).
A friend has a 42 Dancer with 454's and it TOPS OUT at 21mph. Gets less than 1/2mpg trying to plane. Is useful only for slow moving (and at those slow speeds a houseboat is a better value for lake usage).
I cruise at 30mph most of the time. I top out at 38 fully loaded. I've got fuel sheets from the day it arrived and can show you that I have a 750-hour history of over 1.3 mpg. And at 26mph it gets 1.5mpg.
I can leave in the morning and travel the 230 miles to Green Turtle bay in 8 hours and wave at all the gas docks. And I don't even have to feel like I am abusing my powerplants.
A 370 with gas runs decent. When I ordered mine, it was the 5th one they had built with diesels, and I believe there are less than 20 of them total. I will never regret the decision to go diesel and can't emphasize how well I have liked it.
A gas boat labors coming onto plane. A diesel ticks off a few seconds spooling up the turbos, and then you'd better make sure everybody is sitting down. Pow. Under normal acceleration, a diesel just bulldogs its way onto plane with no sense of struggle whatsoever.
I drove a gas 370 in the Gulf when I was still trying to decide whether to spend the extra $40k on diesels. The swells that day would knock the gas boat off plane over and over. There happened to be a diesel 370 there named SlapShot, owned by a hockey player. He was there, and I asked if he minded if I looked into the engine compartment to compare the accessibility of the gas boat (the dealer told me there was a diesel 370 there I could look at). The hockey guy tol me to hop on, and off we went. The diesel boat MOWED DOWN the same water and seemed like a totally different boat. I made up my mind that day. The comparison was 308hp Cats versus 340hp Mercs. The Diesels acted like they were TWICE as powerful as the gas motors.
Mine came with 308's (the largest they'd put in it) and I have respecced mine to the 350's. That was another huge difference, and I saw no change in fuel mpg at all.
I could ramble on all day, but I beckon any big boat buyer to look hard to see if they can locate a diesel within their budget.
The statement that a gas boat will be easier to sell at LOTO than a diesel? In a 15000 pound or smaller boat, certainly. In a 40' cruiser, one ride in a diesel I would think would convert the most hardcore gas freak.
Obviously I am mistaken cause Burt doesn't agree. And this is no slam against anybody, it just shows that different people value different attributes.
I bought my cruiser to take folks places in comfort at speed. I had owned houseboats for years and speedboats, too. Had a houseboat that would run 30, but it killed me on gas and had no range at all.
If I were looking at a cruiser that would only cruise at 18mph, I'd rather swim. Give me one that will cruise at 30? I'm in. The fact that it has double the range of the gas boat, won't explode, will last for several thousand hours before rebuild, can use fuel that ha no highway tax on it, and can't monoxide your kids as they swim around it with the genset running are gravy on top.
Diesels forever.
03-14-2004, 10:55 AM
#36
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The Searay 400 is a nice boat, and I wouldn't necessarily call it underpowered when you compare it to the older 390 EC or the 420/440 Dancers with gas engines. Having run these boats extensively here in the Great lakes I like the 400 better than the others, both in speed and handling. Henry Smith Propellers has a nice prop/rudder package for all these boats and it's definitely worth the money.
There isn't much difference in performance between the 454 and 502 boats so go with the best overall deal.
I have to admit that the older 460 Searay is really a great boat and can be an excellent value, especially when you consider the low finance rates right now.
GET A SURVEY!!!!! on any boat you're seriously considering.
There isn't much difference in performance between the 454 and 502 boats so go with the best overall deal.
I have to admit that the older 460 Searay is really a great boat and can be an excellent value, especially when you consider the low finance rates right now.
GET A SURVEY!!!!! on any boat you're seriously considering.
03-14-2004, 11:39 AM
#37
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McCollinstn, thanx for all the great info. You are very informative. I asked Marine Max for a quote for a new 36 dancer with 420 Yanmars, but no go (yet). I really like the lines of the new 36 and the wife and I can really step down a little. I've never owned a diesel but an anxious to have one.
My boating experience is mostly at Lake Mead (NV) with generally smooth water all the time except for the occasional wind chop. We have over 1200 miles of shoreline to explore, plus the Grand Canyon (when the water is up). Currently I own a 40 footer with a cruising speed over 60 and tops out over 90 (not with wife aboard). Thats why we found the 40' Sea Ray boring (but beautiful)...
My boating experience is mostly at Lake Mead (NV) with generally smooth water all the time except for the occasional wind chop. We have over 1200 miles of shoreline to explore, plus the Grand Canyon (when the water is up). Currently I own a 40 footer with a cruising speed over 60 and tops out over 90 (not with wife aboard). Thats why we found the 40' Sea Ray boring (but beautiful)...
03-14-2004, 01:19 PM
#39
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
No argument that 90mph boats are more fun than 35mph boats (which are more fun than 15mph boats).
Since 91 I've owned a 70mph Formula. Can get my kids on it every so often when I beg them. Wife will only go on it every third full moon.
No DSS for her to watch Nascar and golf. No A/C. No giant bathroom or fully stocked fridge and pantry.
Choices? More houseboats (ugh) or a comfortable express cruiser with long legs and good speed. Hey, works for me...
The 360 is a great compromise. I hope you are able to reach a deal you like.
I've been looking at the 480 Motor Yacht and the 540/550 Dancers but like you mentioned earlier, you get into a spot where wake issues will cause you anguish (especially since I plan to run whatever I got at a 30mph cruise).
Since 91 I've owned a 70mph Formula. Can get my kids on it every so often when I beg them. Wife will only go on it every third full moon.
No DSS for her to watch Nascar and golf. No A/C. No giant bathroom or fully stocked fridge and pantry.
Choices? More houseboats (ugh) or a comfortable express cruiser with long legs and good speed. Hey, works for me...
The 360 is a great compromise. I hope you are able to reach a deal you like.
I've been looking at the 480 Motor Yacht and the 540/550 Dancers but like you mentioned earlier, you get into a spot where wake issues will cause you anguish (especially since I plan to run whatever I got at a 30mph cruise).
03-14-2004, 10:24 PM
#40
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Thread Starter
Originally posted by Downtown42
Geeezz..all this good info and the poor guy has to relay it all. FUN HOME: Tell your friend to join and then he can read for heeself.
Geeezz..all this good info and the poor guy has to relay it all. FUN HOME: Tell your friend to join and then he can read for heeself.
Thanks for all the info. guy's!!!
