The Deadbeat
 

IT IS TIME:mad: :mad: :mad: The deadbeat who will not give me my Deposit back and is one and a half Months from Small Claims Court (yes I filed today) is..................................************ Due to the fact we are going to Court I do not want anyone to contact him or harass him...it could cost me the case. He is the owner of a trucking co of the same name. I would be very cautious if you are looking at his boat and planning on a deposit, if you change your mind you will lose it. It is too bad he has to act like this and we will have our day in Court.........June 1. See ya then tim...ya deadbeat :eek: :mad: :mad: He had his 1991 32 AT on the Board for sale so he is a member. I deleted his pics out of spite, it had the panther on the side, someone have this pic....POST IT:mad: :mad: :mad:

bastage!!!

Hope it goes your way in court Mitch, Congrats on the new Boat.

Mitch call me tomorrow at work. I think we have the Offshore Demo race etc the weekend before that here in Lake George. Why not come on out early and spend some time here. Stay for free with me. I just cannot take the whole week off. So you get to go boating and get your money back!:D :eureka:

Go get him in court. :mad:

Good luck in court. I've been trying to get my money back from a deadbeat for over a year now in the court system. Not small claims though. Hopefully it'll workout or ya. What turns some people into such *******s???

You know Boston, that is what I ask everyone who I tell this story to. I have two friends who own trucking cos and they have heard of him so there is no monetary reason. Shane, I'll call you. Thanks.

man his wife sent me a ton of photos back a few 6 months ago, but I though the price was high for a 91
I think Member "Becca" knows them personally

Well, well, well, please let us know Becca. I had a bunch of pictures also. :mad:

good luck in court.

What is his screen name mitch?

Thanks Lotoparty, I'll buy you a drink when I am there in 6 weeks.:D Cord, I am trying to call, I don't know his name, sorry. Oh yea...it is MUD.:mad:

As a guy with a boat for sale, I am really interested to see how this works out. If I take a deposit on my boat is that really enough w/o a contract of some sort? If not, then why take a deposit? I hope this works out for you Mitch and maybe we can all learn somthing in the process. My boat is on consignent so the situation is a little different but I would hate to take it off the market if the deposit means nothing.
I'm a little gun shy after selling my house and having the buyer try and walk away the morning of closing. Nearly came to violence in my garage when he showed up.

Mitch,
Deposits like this are fairly complicated things. If you put a deposit on a boat, you are asking the owner not to sell it until you get your finances arranged. The seller then may miss other offers, even for more money than you offered.

So, what is the owner's position in this deal. He keeps the deposit if you back out.

To protect you and him, all of the possible outs for either party need to documented in a contract. Did you have a written contract? Did he bail on the contract? No offense but, did you bail?

I don't mean to offend a fellow board member but many people think you can just hand someone $1000.00 to hold a boat and then if you back out for some reason you should get your money back.

Care to share details? If not I understand and I'll shut up. And,,,,,,really,,,,,, I'm not on your case here Mitch. It's just a discussion of how these things are misunderstood.

Dave

I think that the guy told him he (Mitch) could have his money back if he backed out. I imagine that the seller will never admit to that though unless it is in writing.

If thats not in writing somewhere,,,,,,,,, well.................



If it is, case closed.

The boat was not on the market and I paid the deposit to get first chance, I called him within a week and told him I was not interested in the boat, told him to keep $100 for his trouble. During our first talks he said many times it was just a deposit and he would pay it back if things did not work out. He is 12 hours from me and it did not work for that and other reasons. I would never have gave him the money if I was not sure he would give it back. There was nothing but my memo on the check as written anything. All this aside, it is just crap he is acting like this, I would never hold someones money and never call or respond in over a month, how can a person like this live with themselfs??

Well Mitch, I agree with you about how could this guy could be such a jerk as to keep your money. However, you left yourself wide open.

Plus, it's only $100.00. Chalk this one up to "don't trust anyone" and say the hell with it. Plus, going to court over 100 bucks is silly and he knows it.

There are many of us on this board who are honest and trusting. We can make deals with nothing more than a virtual handshake. I know I can, I've done it with other members and all was fine. Gives you a good feeling when deals can be done so nicely. However, when those deals go south, we have only ourselves to blame for Mr. Nice Guy.

Sorry for your loss and hassels. I know if I were that guy, I'd be embarrassed and ashamed to keep your money.:(

You need to follow this story from the beginning. The amount is 2K. Mitch told him he could keep $100 of that amount for his trouble. This is why Mitch is screaming so loud.

I think that is enough money to scream about IMO.

Buck

I thought I did follow the story from the beginning, no talk here about any 2k. Must be more than this thread, eh?

Anyway, yeah, hell yeah, 2k is plenty to scream about. Thats a serious loss. But again, all the more reason for a fully thought-out and documented contract.

Mitch - why in the world did you give him 2 grand??? Thats a lot of scratch for a deposit. $500.00 should be enough.

2 grand warrants going to court over. I just hope you can come up with more of a case than "he said he would give it back".

This isn't the first thread on the subject. It's been talked about since late last week. Mitch deleted the original thread out of respect to the individual. That should say a lot about Mitch's character IMO.

There could be a hundred view points on this whole subject. He said, she said. Should have, could have, would have and all that. Bottom line, where I come from you can look a man in the eye and take him for his word. I realize that's a novel idea to some, but it's still pretty much law around here.

Buck

I fully agree with you Buck, thats the way it should be and the way it is with me. However, thats why I've been burned before. I'd much rather make a deal, shake a hand and then do what you said you would do. That's contract enough for me. Its pride, its responsibility, it honor. But, there are low-life scum bags out there that couldn't care less about honor. Mitch ran into one and I've run into them also.

The bottom line is, it's a crap shoot taking anyone you don't know real well at their word.

I am glad that I didn't pursue that boat.

I know the guy and the boat. He runs out of Bonnie Castle in A Bay, Thousand Islands. Becca should know who he is too, I don't know how personal though.

To bad I missed the first thread.

I always liked the boat, less the cheesy pather:rolleyes:

When selling or buying an expensive item and a deposit is needed, you have to get it in writing and spell out the terms. It can be as brief as:

Deposit of $2000 is refundable if buyer cancels within 72 hours.

Deposit is Non-refundable if buyer cancels for any reason.

If you have this document in your hand and present it to a judge, he will most likely go for what it says. Judges always lean to the consumer who has something to lose. In this case, it would be Mitch.

I feel for Mitch and I understand that he's pissed and I hope he gets his money back, but you just can't trust everybody.

Because there are unethical people out there, like this guy, you have to get it in writing to protect yourself.

I'm not picking sides here, just my 2 cents.

Absent and agreement to the contary, I think that a Court will require that he return the $$ unless he can show that his reliance upon the proposed purchase caused him to miss some substantial opportunities.

I am not criticizing Mitch but what exactly is the sellers motivation to accept deposits and hold off other buyers if the depositing buyer can just change his mind and walk away?? What benefit does the seller get from accepting the deposit? I guess my concern is that had the seller sold the boat out from under you would you be upset as well?? Of course! So what is the reasonable resoloution to this ? I am not sure, but I would never give a deposit without a complete understanding of the nature and cancellation conditions of the deposit, and in writing. The writing portion always gives you the ammunition if going to court is necessary.

If he has sold the boat since then for the same amount he would need to return the $$, if he has sold it for less then he may have a issue, and if he has not advertised since then it would appear that "no harm, no foul"......

What up Rock!!? Goin' boating today if she's done!!;)

This reminded me that I just went through this a few months ago with a client that was buying a boat out of the great lakes area. He found the boat and made an offer to the dealership on this very special and "rare" boat. The dealership accepted the contract, took a deposit and claimed to have removed it from the market. Come to find out the dealership continued to market the boat and while my client was arranging to get a survey the dealership sold the boat to another buyer offering more. Was the dealership wrong? Of course! Was this actionable? Hell yes! But my client decided not to pursue it because someone here on the board bought the boat and he did not feel like causing a bunch of litigation with the dealer, only to result in the other OSO member getting punished. This was with a written contract!! This BS cuts both ways.......

Mitch I think this one is not going to be as cut and dry as you think. Unfortunatly you will show up to court and say that there was a understanding that you could have your money back. He is going to show up to court and say that this was a non refundable deposit and that you knew that and that he missed selling the boat to TONS of other people yada yada yada..... I am not sure were you filed in court (near home or in NY) but if you had to file in NY then I would say that it may not be worth your while. Some times you just have to walk away from screwings like this. I just had to walk away from a 20,000 buck screwing that I got from a customer and so far I can not even get my tools and extra product back that is in his house!!!

Jon

That raises another issue..... you may not be able to file this suit in Michigan. For jurisdictional reasons it may require you to file in NY. You may get into a cost benefit analysis to decide whether you are going to spend the $$ and time to litigate this in NY.

I believe in NY a verbal agreement is a contract ...

Mitch filed in NY. Date is 6/1/4. :mad:

Deposit and contract disputes are commonplace and unfortunate, but I guess what irks me is his chicken$hit refusal to confront you on this matter. If he's going to keep the deposit, very well, but at least have the balls to tell the buyer that...unless I missed something and he already did that.

My feelings also. The guy never once returned calls or e/m. Just had his wife do all the dirty work. If I am right (or at least I think so) I will stand in your face and tell you. And I am not a big guy. At least everyone knows where they stand with me- good or bad. (hopefully good) You just can't trust anyone when it comes to these deals. Put it in writing and then there is no question of what is stated and agreed upon. my $1.00

Thats what I say, I have called dozens of times and ask specifically that if there is a problem returning the money to let me know, still nothing, talked to his wife and pleaded with her, still nothing. I will drive to NY, stay with Shane, and have my day in court, maybe he will pay when the cert mail arrives, if not than yes I made a mistake but I will never forget and will never let him forget....for the rest of our lives. I do not condone violence and will never do anything to harm his name or business....that would be lowering myself to his level, but a phone call or a million, and letters asking for the money will be generated at a dizzying pace.

Good luck. Everyone take note and learn from this. ThirdBird, d-hlaw, and others has great points and perspective. Moral of the story, no more than $500 and get it in writing fully understood by both involved. Again best of luck...

Mitch, in your first "Deadbeat" post, and correct me if I am wrong, you said you did not purchase the boat because of financial reasons. Again, if I am wrong I apologize. Above you stated you told him you were not interested in the boat. Is it possible the person is just irritated that you bought another boat, and now is being vindictive. Do not take this wrong, I am not condoning what he is doing. If he told you he would return your deposit, that should be done. I am just curious as to the events that possibly caused him to renege on his end of the deal. Another issue is not being able to communicate with him. If he hasn't returned you calls or answered your E mails, that is really unfortunate. You can not resolve any matter if communication is not available. :confused: Good luck. Sam

I told him I was getting another boat and I am sure he was not happy but never said he would not return it. Otherwise I have no idea why he turned, I was very nice and calm in all my messages so I did not blow up. And yes, all learn because there are people like this that have no moral fiber or conscious. It is a sad state of affairs and as I said before and told Tim, I will not go away. I don't care how long it takes I will always be a part of his life....just like an X wife.

I am talking to him right now, things are moving forward. At least we are talking.

We talked in length. He is under the gun on the purchase of a very large boat. There were misunderstandings as far as my intentions and with nothing in writing. We are working thru it together, he apologized for the lack of return calls and I apologized for the misunderstanding. We will see what happens.