so called huh. I guess I'm just sitting here making this chit up. :rolleyes:

Is it stepped hulls..... who knows? Try buying a new boat without steps from Fountain, Cig, Donzi, Outerlimits, Skater etc. It is impossible. they all build stepped hulls because their faster, more efficient and the new technology. They build them because they sell. How many manufacturers have the inclination or resources to send an accident investigator out to accidents. Let me take a wild guess and say none.

lets ask the drivers of the accidents........ the dead cannot talk and the blessed ones will not tell the truth or are not knowledgeable enough to give you the facts when they get out of the hospital.

We can ask the local or national authorities. the local police, water patrol and / or Coast Guard are not effectively equipped to determine accident cause. I believe the Coast Guard tracks type of boat ( motor, sail, row ) and length. I doubt their national stats show 14 Fountains, 2 Skaters etc. I doubt seriously if they knew the difference between a steeped and a nonstepped hull. I am not trying to disrespect these valuable lifesaving institutions. They are not trained and / or funded in these investigations or for their statistics.

Government agency....... something like the national Highway & safety Adm for boats. They would certainly get to the bottom of the cause, root out bad designs and / or products. Fat chance they would ever form such an agency as there are neither enough boats nor enough deaths to fund it.

Bottomline........ this is mostly mental masturbation. We need to continue to have fun, excercise some caution and pray alot.

Sorry for being so long winded

Boat wake ?

Got to be carful of them when you are at speed.

I learned a good lesson about them a many years back.

L.S.

brandon- thanks for the 411. i knew i could count on the Cigarette Secret Service!! :D

as Cig1 mentioned, conditions have to be perfect for me to lay down a speed pass. if conditions aren't perfect, i don't care to push it to the edge....i've got too much to risk. if i make a mistake and kill myself, that is one thing, but if i make a mistake w/ passengers in my boat that is a totally different situation. i couldn't live with the guilt of hurting/killing a passenger...... :(

BTW, since i own a 100mph boat.....doesn't that make me an expert?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

jbk

..as to GLH ( of course being it was a Cig had nothing to do with his comments) and other's I can only offer this:

If you can't answer a man's argument, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names.
- Elbert Hubbard

and

Albert Einstein - "The difference between genius and stupidity
is that genius has limits".

...name calling is a compliment from you guys...and I have limits..do you?


ever know that Einstein was a sailor?

when boats violently spinout in calm waters a small distance from shore it's design...even trained pro's can't react that fast...so don't waste time calling me names..re-evaluate the designs and power..and educate...amazing that a 400k boat does this...if a sportscar did this they would pull it off the market...

...my only point is that like in the stock market the greedy get slaughtered...too much greed in "design" can lead to that too....a few of these "stepped boats" look like a "Great White" Shark bit the undersides off the boat..you can see they will spinout easily...

...I say in retrospect Formula took the right approach...5 mph more...not the fastest but so far no "tree climbers"

....The Tiger..has smaller steps and handles great according to a recent article...so my .02

rethink things...and if you have the right design great and if not...re-tweak...all this is really SLOWING my decision process down...

...I am gonna test drive it or it don't come home!

OY! :rolleyes:

If you wont listen to the guys who know about his stuff, then try listening to a guy wo knows nothing about hull design, HO engines, etc etc.....

TONE IT DOWN A NOTCH.

Did someone say video?

DUDE!

LPA2106, since you are an expert on the stock market, expert boat designer/critic, and a philosopher, maybe your time is better spent daytrading or writing books or proverbs:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

How in the hell do you have that many posts about absolutely nothing in that short period of time?:o :o :o

See this is why no one wants to humor you. If you ever buy a boat and you are in calm water doing high speed turns like a moron, you WILL end up wrecking eventually. It WILL be your fault, no one elses.

Sadly, you will probably be one of the guys who's ego tells them that there is NO WAY you could be at fault, so you find someone else to blame, or worse, sue. You have only told us that you are not capable of being responsible for your own actions.

As usual, you haven't read any of the credible posts, so your knowledge will continue to be scarce. The water wasn't calm, it was windy and rough. It was a 225,000 boat not 400.

In the beginning we were given two ears and one mouth. By design, we should listen twice as much as we talk.

...fine but no name calling

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LPA2106
[B]..as to GLH ( of course being it was a Cig had nothing to do with his comments) and other's I can only offer this:

If you can't answer a man's argument, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names.
- Elbert Hubbard

and

Albert Einstein - "The difference between genius and stupidity
is that genius has limits".

...name calling is a compliment from you guys...and I have limits..do you?


ever know that Einstein was a sailor?

when boats violently spinout in calm waters a small distance from shore it's design...even trained pro's can't react that fast...so don't waste time calling me names..re-evaluate the designs and power..and educate...amazing that a 400k boat does this...if a sportscar did this they would pull it off the market...

...my only point is that like in the stock market the greedy get slaughtered...too much greed in "design" can lead to that too....a few of these "stepped boats" look like a "Great White" Shark bit the undersides off the boat..you can see they will spinout easily...





what planet are u from?? non step boats spin too!!! i believe any performance boat can spin depending on how hard u turn and conditions etc,
my viper is a sports car and belive me,, u would not have a hard time spinin out.. it aint got no steps should they add another axle so we could have 6 wheels on the ground??
i dont want to be protected,, i want to be able make some judgments and decisions and use my common sense drive and buy what i want...
this would turn into a communist regim where we all can have a row boat max 2.5 hp and a hugo with 55 hp
full harness in the car and a padded cell to sleep in so if u fall out of your bed u dont get hurt either, oh and dont forget your drull cup and helmet..

i am glad all our ok on the cig god bless em,,
its the old thing stuff happens and yes we know these boats can be dangerous and that is why we take precautions life jackets lanyards good bolsters and stout well built and maintained boats that can run thru the chit...

There are ongoing pros and cons regarding this hull design. Therefore, the debate will continue: Are stepped hulls inherently more dangerous than non-stepped hulls?

Steps are very interesting but seem to be useful only at high speed and suffer terribly at low speed. In waves the side air entry can be blocked and cause lateral accelerations that are uncomfortable at best and dangerous at worst. Some try what they call ram air ducts and some have tried powered air inlets to create a kind of surface effect vehicle.

An informed boater is your best customer

no its the nut bhind the wheel that can be inherently more dangerous..

ongoing pros and cons re deaths in cars could the design of
a viper more dangerous than a ford escort?

?????????????????????? :)

Yes .........unless you own or build them.

T2x

I repeat:

Steps are very interesting but seem to be useful only at high speed and suffer terribly at low speed.

I repeat:

There are ongoing pros and cons regarding this hull design. Therefore, the debate will continue: Are stepped hulls inherently more dangerous than non-stepped hulls?

I repeat:

OY! :rolleyes:

There are ongoing pros and cons regarding this hull design. Therefore, the debate will continue: Are stepped hulls inherently more dangerous than non-stepped hulls?

I was not an expert, but I drove a step-bottom boat this weekend, and did not roll it. Can I now be an expert?

Why do you ask?

Same arguement can be made about handguns.

LPA, did you by chance stay at a Motel 6 last night?

did they leave the light on ? :D

I do not post many messages but am concerned about the recent reported incidents, so I have some questions for the learned or more experienced boaters with political ties.
1. What is the scuttle-butt on passing legislation regarding maximum boat speeds, not slow wake zones but SPEED LIMITS?
2. Is the gage by which the pleasure boating safety record measured fatalities? Crashes? Combination of both?
3. I have concerns that these crashes will bolster some ignorant politician's thinking that a law needs to be passed which would screw us all. The offshore boating world is small minority of people, minority meaning people who have the discretionary income for their toys(boats) which few can afford.
4. I do not know the status of what legislation is pending or being drafted, but rumors are always rampant that a speed limit will be instituted, what is the truth?

Camouflage condoms: So they won't see you coming.

....maybe changing the subject...???

:D :D :D :D

There are ongoing pros and cons regarding this hull design. Therefore, the debate will continue: Are stepped hulls inherently more dangerous than non-stepped hulls?


it is a debate...nobody is right or wrong ....

I hope no one bites it on the Potomac River anytime soon (knocking on wood). Surrounded by Washington DC, Virginia, and Maryland; phucking polititians, they will divert the river 200 miles and screw us all.

It's actually Holiday Inn....;)

I'm staying out with the exception of the analogy to a car being taken off the road. Boating is more akin to flying than driving in my opinion and all planes are capable of spinning under the right conditions so you are trained to avoid those conditions. The same should hold true of all boats.

Even with hours of training, some pilots manage to spin into the ground each year and it makes the news too. :rolleyes:

LPA, what is your opinion of the V-tail Bonanza and it's inherant problems? Not to be rude but I feel that you probably have as much experience in that as you do in a gladiator.

What I would rather hear is what happend from the driver of this boat and see the video so I can maybe learn something.

Also it isn't just performance boats with steps, I drive by hundreds of boats each day to and from work and more have steps than don't.

Didn't do a very good job of staying out :(

Crawl back in your hole if you don't have the nads to show your head.

Make sure the attendants with the white shirts and the cattle prods lock the lid behind you this time.

You might also tell them that the straps tying your shirt sleeves in the back are loose.

Also stop cutting and pasting taught of others it's refreshing to have your own. I'm sure "plagiarizeonly.com" must love you but here your getting old with a lot of people.

I have been insulted by much better people I assure you!

Not changing the subject, just thinking how does this **** effect me and me boating on Sunday's in the summertime. Will I be screwed because of someone else's misfortune (true accident), or someone's incompetence/lack of experience/or being liquored-up! I love boating, I just do not want the government to get involved with speed regulations for boating, because there are now more reportable accidents than in years past. Reportable because of the Internet as mentioned earlier.

Fess up with who you are or shut up.

Question: What do you get when you cross the Godfather with a philosopher?
Answer: An offer you can't understand.

..this is all philosophical

and again no need for name calling

...When I signed up they did NOT require me to put my name address and picture on the board....and I don't intend to...it's a free country and until OSO boots me off I will remain a gentleman with questions...a few answers..and a decent approach to the sport....

...For every philosopher, there exists an equal and opposite philosopher..

in other words...no 2 people are always right...

i THINK THIS IS GETTING A LITTLE HEATED...LETS ALL RRRREEEELLLAAXXXXX.........

The answer is absolutely not under normal use conditions. What is normal use? Imagine taking the wife and kids out on the boat, or maybe even grandparents. Your going to be thinking about what is in there best interest. If you got 90 year old grandma and grandpa in the back seat your not going to be running the boat WFO in 6-8's in the ocean! You will be running in the 50's slowing down for big waves, and making wide sweeping turns, and maybe if it is calm open her up a little bit to give grandpa a boner. But when your out with your buddies, pounding down the beers running WFO making tight turns, what do you think is going to happen ??????.............no brainer....................

Just be a responisble boater.Stop thinking about yourself for once and think about the people around you. Do this and you will never have a problem with a stepped hull, conventional V, Cat, or West Marine 8' inflatable dingy with 9 h.p. Merc. :)

"If it weren't for electricity we'd all be watching television by candlelight."

Worse yet, if it weren't for the combustible engine we would be blow-boters arguing about which sail is best, and how best to save the manatees.
;)

Even better he's an attorney...