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What's The Right Thing To Do?

Old 06-10-2004, 11:33 AM
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Default What's The Right Thing To Do?

Okay, after my truck transmission woes I have a new issue.

Back in February, I did a trade deal with my Baja for my Cigarette. I towed my Outlaw to Canada and pulled the Cig back. The Outlaw had only 25 hours on it and was in perfect, like new condition. The buyer was anxious to get the boat but I wanted to wait until the weather was going to be clear as I didnít want to run into any snowstorms (Iím in Los Angles area). We talked about winterization and I told him we donít do anything here because we run all year. He felt that if we waited until the end of February we should be okay. I left at the end of Feb and the only below freezing weather I ran into was through Flagstaff and that was only for a couple hours. I left (with a buddy) Friday at noon and got to Canada (Niagra Falls) Sunday afternoon as we drove straight through. It was raining when we got there.

I met up with the buyer and we did our deal. I told him I hadnít done anything to the boat other than check fluids and grease trailer bearings. I told him about weather in Flagstaff and we both agreed that it shouldnít have been a problem. The Cig I picked up had been winterized by a local marina. I towed it home and have subsequently had to pull both drives, replace both impellers, one gimble bearing, bellows, and u-joints. It still needs anti-siphon valves, remote oil filters installed, and exhaust baffles solenoid or pump fixed as well as many other minor details. I havenít asked him to help out with any of these things but I did let him know what I found. He told me both drives and motors were rebuilt and had only 4 hours on them. The drives were supposed to be Gen 2 (1996) Alphas and it turns out they are gen 1, 1991 or earlier.

In one of our conversations, shortly after getting home, I asked how the Baja is running for him. He said he started the engine and had a small water leak in a line at the lower front of the engine and would have his marine mechanic check it out. I spoke to him and e-mailed a couple times and he hadnít had it checked yet. I got an e-mail from him today saying only that the repair is $5000 and it needs a new block with no further info. I am leaving for Denver today for a week and told him Iíd call when I get back.

I donít know how to handle this. I told him the boat was in perfect condition and it was. I donít think the damage could have been incurred during delivery. I think he let the boat sit outside after he got it in the Canadian weather. It is quite possible (and likely) that they had freezing weather between March and now. I want to do what is right but donít know if Iím to blame here. What do you think?
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Old 06-10-2004, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: What's The Right Thing To Do?

Yous hould ve able to see historical weather data for his area on the web somewhere. Ask him if he stored it inside after he received it. Anyway it sounds like he will have little recourse after this long a period.
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Old 06-10-2004, 11:50 AM
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Default Re: What's The Right Thing To Do?

Did you do a bill of sale indicating it being sold in "As Is Condition"?? You can't crack a block by towing it....even in below freezing temperature weather for an hour or two. bought the boat from him in "As Is Condition". It's always buyer beware....and if you were really worried about the actual types of drives and condition of the would have gotten a survey done. I think you let emotion get in the way of your buying sense!
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Old 06-10-2004, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: What's The Right Thing To Do?

You told the guy it wasn't winterized. He said bring it. It's his problem. If you feel that you may somehow be responsible, ask him where the boat was winterized or where is was stored inside. Then have him produce the invoice to prove it. Bottom line is that he's in canada and would have a very difficult and expensive time pursuing you here in the us. It would not be worth the money to come after you.
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Old 06-10-2004, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: What's The Right Thing To Do?

I agree with klmken; however, for the amount of time and energy it takes to throw some pink stuff in the motor; someone shoud have winterized it. If you take no chances, you have no reason to worry.
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Old 06-10-2004, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: What's The Right Thing To Do?

Baja Fresh.

I can throw a rock and hit Canada. (I wouldn't, though)
He made the decision to do it in Feb. This was a bad decision.

Let's assume it didn't happen in Flagstaff. BECAUSE THE NEW BUYER DID, TOO.

The block cracked. It cracked in Canada. It was cold.
I won't leave water in my block until after May 15 here.

Ask any northern boater.
We don't push the limits on freezing or we buy a new block.

If I had bought the boat, I would have been winterizing it before you got it unhooked.
(I would have looked at the sides of the blocks below the drain plugs, too.)
No wait.... I would have insisted you winterize it before the trip!

In my experience, Canadians take winterization seriously, unlike your buyer.
You did all you could by trying to wait for better weather, and warning him about Flagstaff. If he was going to skip the winterizing, he should have waited to get the boat.

The bottom line is this.... it would have been cool of you to winterize the boat just in case. I know that you don't "normally" have to do it. However, all the decisions were made by him, and all the warnings came from you. The fact that he wasn't worried about it tells you all you need to know. You are a cool person to feel bad for him. But you are not responsible for his decisions and/or negligence.

I'm a nice guy too, but I am not responsible for the choices made by the guy who buys my boat.
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Old 06-10-2004, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: What's The Right Thing To Do?

Personally I don't think you owe him jack, providing clean bill of sale.
Nice round number of 5000.00....not 2867.63 or 4301.29.... hmmmmmmm
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Old 06-10-2004, 12:02 PM
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Default Re: What's The Right Thing To Do?

It's good you did not winterize for him. He knew it was NOT done. If you did and stated you winterized for him; then he has a problem; you could maybe have some more liablity if it got ugly.
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Old 06-10-2004, 12:10 PM
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Default Re: What's The Right Thing To Do?

There has to be a place to weather data for his location. I'd look for that first.
Then ask if he had it winterized, and remind him about the coversation he had with you about it.
The short trip through freezing temps probably didn't have enough time to even skin freeze the water in the block. It would take several hours sitting at 32* to chill the engine block enough to cause freezing. There's way too much iron mass to change temp rapidly.

If he does claim it was winterized, ask for the recipt.
No recipt, no winterization, it's his own fault.
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Old 06-10-2004, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: What's The Right Thing To Do?

I believe legally, he has no recourse. However ,that being said, I wish there were more honest people out there like you.The fact that you even believe it might have been partly your fault speaks much about your integrity. Now, to relieve you of your guilty feelings, there is no way a single ride through some below freezing weather would destroy that block. I live up here in the northeast, and see many people wait way too long to get their boats winterized, always trying to cheat the cold weather, just for one more week, till they can get to it.Normally, one or two nights below the freezing mark does nothing to hurt the block. The block really needs to cold soak for a few days below freezing , without getting back above the freezing mark during the day,before it starts to really freeze things up.There is alot of mass there, and its also insulated more so by the boat itself and your cover. No way that happened on your way there. If he didnt worry about winterization when you spoke on the phone, he certainly didnt worry about afterwards either. He did that to the motor himself. I'd be more pissed at how he screwed you instead. My .02
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