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Why so much for marine motors?

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Old 07-25-2004, 10:11 PM
  #11
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Default Re: Why so much for marine motors?

What irritated me was that a cam change was going to cost $2500. WTF, the motors were already roller cams so all the guy had to do was buy 2 new cams (at the most $700 in parts) So there is $1700 in labor. If I told the last guy that came into our shop it would cost him $800 in labor to change his cam, I would get the State on my a$$ or he would have gone somewhere else. Plus this guy must be a real moron. He said that Joey Griffin told him to take the fuel injection off and put on carbs?????????
I hate ignorant people like that, They perpetuate the notion that fuel injection is scary voodoo and is worse that carbs. Joey probably had some dusty carbs on the shelf and saw this guy coming with the words "SUCKER" written on his forehead. If you ask if I have carbs or fuel injection on my boat, the answer is carbs, but that is only because I just bought the boat. I WILL be taking them off over the winter and putting on a pair of MEFI boxes. I am a firm believer that fuel injection IS SUPERIOR to carburetors.

Last edited by phughes69; 07-25-2004 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 07-26-2004, 02:03 AM
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Default Re: Why so much for marine motors?

How differnt are freshwater cooled marine engines and street engines?
How much is actually involved in converting it?
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Old 07-26-2004, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Why so much for marine motors?

$2500 is not bad for a cam change on 2 engines if you do it right and get high quality parts. New cam means new lifters too, if you do it right. Also the new cam will require different springs. Thats about $1000 per engine in parts alone.
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Old 07-26-2004, 08:00 AM
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Default Re: Why so much for marine motors?

One word= MARINE
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Old 07-26-2004, 08:42 AM
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Arrow Re: Why so much for marine motors?

I was looking at a boat that needed work and repowering.

http://www.bayshorepowermarine.com/pages/11/index.htm

Merc HP 525 EFI $ 26,335.00 ; HP 500 $ 22,500
Merc XR Sportmaster drive $ 9,495

Merc Twin setups: $ 71,660

Then I went shopping and found Chief Engines http://www.chiefengines.com/engines.php
to offer some fine products at great prices as well as other marine manufacturers:

Chief HP 525 $ 20,000.00
Chief 575 HP $27,500 ( $ 1165.00 more than a 525EFI)
Chief 675 HP SC EFI $ 30,000.00 (Only $ 3,665.00 more than a HP 525)

I was looking at the Chief HP 740 EFI Looks like a great package for the money.

Chief 740 HP SC EFI $ $ 33,000.00

Crankshaft Horsepower.......... 740 HP
Displacement................... 540 CI
Bore........................... 4.500
Stroke......................... 4.250
Maximum RPM.................... 5200-5400 RPM
Maximum Torque................. 780 Ft/Lbs
Idle RPM in Neutral............ 1000 RPM
Compression Ratio.............. 8.6:1
Operating Temperature.......... 142F
Timing @ 4000 RPM.............. 34 Degrees
Firing Order................... 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
Fuel Requirements.............. 93 Octane Minimum
Block.......................... Merlin III, Siamese Bore, Cast Iron, Four Bolt Main
Crankshaft..................... Lunati 4340 Forged Steel
Rods........................... Manley I beam forged 4340 Steel,7/16 Bolts, Shotpeened
Pistons........................ JE 2618 Forged Aluminum
Piston Rings................... Standard Tension
Cylinder Heads................. Merlin VR cast iron C-N-C ported, Rectangular Port
Valves - Intake................ Manley 2.300 Severe Duty
Valves - Exhaust............... Manley 1.880 Dia. Inconel
Cam............................ Hydraulic Roller
Lifters........................ Hydraulic Roller
Pushrods....................... 080 Wall
Rocker Arms.................... Chief Full Roller
Intake......................... Blower Shop
Supercharger................... Blower Shop 6-71
Fuel Injection................. Chief Competition Engine Managment
Fuel Pump...................... Holley dual diaphragm / EFI hi pressure
Exhaust System................. Stainless Marine Dominator
Oil Pump....................... High Volume / 10 quart
Ignition....................... Chief Competition Engine Management / Thunderbolt IV
Charging System................ 12 Volt/65 AMP
Alarm System................... Chief Competition Engine Management / Audio/ Visual/ Water Temp/ Oil Press.
Transmission................... MerCruiser Bravo System, Modified Borg Warner
It appears that the price includes the drive as well.

740 HP SC Carb $ 29,000 ($ 3,000 more than a 525 EFI)

It just seems that buying the right amount of HP you need in the first place is the way to go if you can. Get a package that is designed from the ground up to handle the extra HP and heat and realizing the XR is good up to 550 HP max beyond that Imco extreme drives or # 6's . Getting a custom built boat makes a lot of sense. In the short term it's about the same price and in the long term cheaper in that the engine is designed for a specific HP.

Last edited by Hydrocruiser; 07-26-2004 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 07-26-2004, 09:09 AM
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Default Re: Why so much for marine motors?

Kinsler fuel injection is mechanical and somewhat finicky. If someone wanted to use these in a fish/cruiser boat like this guy says then carbs would be more manageable. But if I was looking to go big on a repower the only logical choice would be diesel before you bought those motors for a fish/cruise boat.
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Old 07-26-2004, 09:24 AM
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Default Re: Why so much for marine motors?

If you want to play you have to pay, that is the bottom line
It takes alot of time to build a quality marine race motor. You
just dont know unless you have witness one being built right.

I am building a 598 ci at the moment and has taking me about
10 hours just to get the clearances on the crank by line bore and hone,
changing bearing sizes H`S to HX`s etc. just to get it right on the money.

For those of you that know how it is done some of these combos
require diffrent bottom and upper bearing sizes just to get the
exact clearance on the mains.

Anyone can build a motor, however not everyone can build a reliable
one. For the person whom started this thread and stated all the parts
on the motor on Ebay, a Callies crank is not a hardcore crank to say
the least, Crower, Bryant and Lunati are much better.
CP pistons are better than a JE piston, yes more $$ but the
people who were the pioneers of JE are the owners of CP Pistons.

Dont compare a crate motor to race motor, if you do, stay with the
crate becuase you dont know what it takes to make power.
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Old 07-26-2004, 10:20 AM
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Default Re: Why so much for marine motors?

As far as the fuel injection, the intakes are EFI manifolds so it is obvious the seller has no idea about the benefits of fuel injection.
here is the link to the auction

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...spagename=WDVW
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Why so much for marine motors?-engine6.jpg   Why so much for marine motors?-engine7.jpg  
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Old 07-26-2004, 11:56 AM
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Default Re: Why so much for marine motors?

That Cheif motor looks good...I would get those with carbs and aluminum heads for lake mich.
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Old 07-26-2004, 05:45 PM
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Arrow Re: Why so much for marine motors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back4More
That Cheif motor looks good...I would get those with carbs and aluminum heads for lake mich.
Chief engines look like a great deal. I was looking at this the other day and thought there are still some good marine engine values out there. This looks like a solid package and probably cranks nicely!


This looks like an engine/drive package that sells for the same price as the 525 EFI:

Crankshaft Horsepower.......... 625 HP
Displacement................... 540 CI
Bore........................... 4.500
Stroke......................... 4.250
Maximum RPM.................... 5200-5400 RPM
Maximum Torque................. 650 Ft/Lbs
Idle RPM in Neutral............ 1100 RPM
Compression Ratio.............. 9.4:1
Operating Temperature.......... 142F
Timing @ 4000 RPM.............. 34 Degrees
Firing Order................... 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
Fuel Requirements.............. 93 Octane Minimum
Block.......................... Merlin III Cast Iron, GM Gen VI, Siamese Bore, Four Bolt Main
Crankshaft..................... Lunati .Forged 4340 Steel
Rods........................... Manley I Beam forged 4340 Steel
Pistons........................ JE Forged Alloy
Piston Rings................... Chrome Moly
Cylinder Heads................. C-N-C Ported Merlin VR Cast Iron, Rectangular Port
Valves - Intake................ Manley 2.300 Dia. Stainless Steel
Valves - Exhaust............... Manley 1.880 Dia. Inconel
Cam............................ Hydraulic Roller Tappet
Lifters........................ Hydraulic Roller
Pushrods....................... 3/8 Hydraulic Roller Type
Rocker Arms.................... Chief Full Roller
Carb........................... 950 cfm Holley
Intake......................... Aluminum Single Plane
Fuel Pump...................... Holley Dual Diaphragm
Exhaust System................. Stainless Marine Dominator
Oil Pump....................... High Volume
Ignition....................... MerCruiser Electronic Thunderbolt IV
Charging System................ 12 Volt/65 AMP
Alarm System................... Audio/Visual Water Temp, Oil Press.
Transmission................... MerCruiser Bravo System

Last edited by Hydrocruiser; 07-26-2004 at 05:52 PM.
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