Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

As I sit here waiting intently on the results of the Kilo and the races I cant help but think that the dream of DA is dying. I would love to see Cigarette factory involved in Kilos or in offshore racing. "World Championship Offshore Racing Team" seems to mean nothing to the factory anymore and I find that difficult to watch. As Reggie forges forward with his top speed attempts it is very apparent that the lessons learned in that quest ultimately benefit the end user. Why would Cig not want to be a part of the learning curve? Is Skip that blind to not understand that the "Legend" is about DA's racing, battling and proving and improving the Cigarette hull? With a clear hull turning issue why would he not want to support racing for R&D purposes?? Come on Skip, get with the program!! Let me qualify this by saying that I have my 3rd Cig on the way.......

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

The only way Cig could get involved is if they built a prototype for the kilo runs alone. Cig is known for crushing the waves at high speeds. Fountain is known for high speeds w/glass conditions. Two different types of boats, Built differently w/ different goals, you know that.

And cig is working on improving itself. Look at the new 39. Not a huge jump but it is different from their norm.

Fountain wants to be the fastest. Cig doesn't need to prove it's the best....it just is....it's an industry standard.

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

But the point I am making is that it is not the industry standard based on performance, only on name recognition. Eventually that legend will be a myth...... I dont want that to happen.

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

a cig couldnt run 180 if it was dumped out of an airplane

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

I agree 100%. I don't want that to happen either. But I disagree on the fact the name recognition is based not on performance. Remember, how a boat handles the true "offshore" is considered performance as well. Being the fastest doesn't make you the best. being the fastest in the big sh!t does! Cigarette didn't become as famous as it is because of speed trials, advertising, or even the race circuit dare I say.

They became the industry standard because of word of mouth of owners. When's the last time you heard from an unsatisfied Cig owner. The fact that they have been building boats for 30 years doesn't hurt either. Legends like Cigarette don't die because they don't run a race.

Though I have to agree, on the flip side, I too would like to see a Cigarette go out and run a boat at 180!

Tank

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

Either could a straight production Fountain run 180. I think they and others should consider getting involved in this event. Why? Well Enzo Ferrari said "I make cars during the week and on Sunday I race them"

It's all about attitude and the promotion of the sport. It promotes enthusiasm and if it gets enough notoriety would help curtail people saying "Isn't that one of them there cigar boats". The offshore sport could use more publicity and generate more interest all around. This kind of event can help do that. It would increase sales, resale value and get more folks to appreciate the fun side of this sport.

Worth a consideration by all builders.

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

Why not? It's just money OL and Fountain are playing with. Whoever has the biggest check book will win. If cigarette wanted to build the fasted v-bottom boat in the world, they would. They don't care. You know why? They don't have too. All other V-bottoms are trying to catch up to Cig's rep. It's like someone said on another thread. When they start asking if that's one of them thar Fountain boats or Outerlimit boats when they see a long sleek offshore performance boat, then maybe Cig should start to worry. Cig's doing fine in my opinion.

And by the way, when even a fraction of the nations population has even heard of a Skater then maybe the V-bottom industry should worry.

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

One point would be that the people who are buying new Cigs aren't the one's that have never heard of Skater. Do you think Cig needs to reach the people living in a doublwide and driving a 77 hooptie? I don't think so. What does Cig have to gain by running these drag races? They are already the Gold Standard of offshore powerboats. I still don't think there are many boats going to leave them behind in real world conditions that they are built for. I commend Fountain for what they have accomplished, but it doesn't mean that much to the mainstream performance boaters that run in real seas.

I never met a Cig I didn't like. :cool:

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

I agree 100 %. I could care less if Cigs are competing in Kilos, or trying for the fastest V bottom title. I would like to see them get back into offshore racing but top speed on glass water does nothing for me. If I want to go fast on smooth water I will go back to a cat.

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

Get A Hydroplane,

Smooth an FAST !!!!!!!!!!

L.S.

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

CIg's are great boats without a doubt. However, it's time to either go racing, or give up the World Champion moniker. Let someone who has a title recently use it..

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

Nobody in any sport gives up that fact that they were a World Champion.

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

A Cigarette is a Cigarette !!

None finer !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 'It's the GOOD'

Lucky Strike

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

I think after The East side poker run where NONE of these big new "Offshore"
boats would run....That they have ALL lost there way !! 4-6s with some holes
{turned into 8s at the bar}......I give up....Cats are the way to go...smooth water speed is all that maters anymore....

Except for the 235 Force that ran it !!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

LOL, sic em FRED!!

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

My farther was part of this program and if Don was around today he would
sell his first born to be the King.Also unknowing land folk still call my cat a
Cigarette.Not bad after 30 years.

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

That patch says it all... the priorities of the brand used to be performance. Now it is name recognition and overpriced cotton.

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

1st off my opinion being owned a cig for the first time in my life. while I would owned other brand like OL or Fountain , hustler or Sprectra. they would be my 2nd boat I will always own a Cig.
everyone in our area now knows where we live because of Rampage, I let my brother take it out he felt like a celebrity. that is what Cigarette does. Do they need to prove top speed with out a doubt they could in any condition. but they don't have to.
To Reggie awesome job and glad to see that he has such a love for the sport. I am glad that he kick a** fountain are great boats. OL what can you say yeah they are sweet boats but with a price tag that makes them think they are tops. My only hopes is that Reggie had more throttle because with 1 engine down they now know what they need to beat. Bring it ON.

Too Old , while you are admired here by me any so many others, I would not think that you would put down such a legend. every boat has it own shine on different waters.Cigarette holds its own on flat and shines in the rough.

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

Hey that was before I was even thought of! LOL :D :D :D

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

that is very wrong, fountains top speeds come in choppy water due to less resistance, fountains are made for cruising through waves at high speeds just as much as cigarette if not more, that would be why all the offshore racers are almost all fountain, NO CIGARETTES, so get it right buddy

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

Oh yea, that's right...I forgot, Fountains known for hammering big water! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

My theory: Alot of the offshore racers are Fountains because A) they can get them cheaper than a Cig and B) they bought into the propaganda that Fountain builds the fastest V-bottom.

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

dont think that half that can afford a offshore racers and to run the racer would care about the differance between a cigarette and a fountain, they just want the best hull made, and it happens to be fountain

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

Sorry...don't know what world your living in but there is no such thing as offshore racing any more. It's all closed course river racing. The days of true offshore have been over for awhile. I never see results from Miami to Bimini.

As for the wave crushers I've been in both plenty. In 6 ft chop and over NOTHING handles like a cigarette...period...end of story.

We ran in Savannah last year in some fun water with 22 other boats...the boats out front all day were...a Topgun., a cafe racer, and a bullet...all Cigs. When we got back to the docks later you would have thought a bunch of women were out there, sorry ladies :) , with all the *****in' and moanin' about how rough it was. As for us. we were enjoying it knowing that it was a great ride for us in the Topgun. I also had a broken foot that was operated on the following week but I was standing with the broken foot in the bolster ALL DAY. i had postponed my surgery until after the APBA races so I wouldn't be there on crutches not boating :)

P.S. Please don't look at my statements as bashing fountain's because that is not my intention. Fountain builds a GREAT boat but in my experience the cigs are just unbelievable in the rough stuff. My very first ride in a performance boat was in a 10m fountain when I was 14 or 15 years old. I was hooked after that.

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

Damn Clearcut3 ... you took the words right out of my fingertips ... THERE ARE NO MORE OFFSHORE RACES :eek:

Cigarette doesn't care to be 'World Champion Kilo Racing Team' ... Cigarette doesn't want to be 'World Champion Inside The Breakwater Racing Team'

And what's up with this ... Sunsation has 'World Champion Offshore Powerboats' as part of their name

All I know is that today I ran back from Long Beach to Newport at 5:00 pm in 4-5 washing machine on top of a swell and the tatteltale read 84 ... that's what I'm talkin' 'bout

G

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

Any business tends to take on the personality of it's owner. In the case of Cig, OL and Fountain, look at the personalities of Reggie, Fiorie and Skip, and remember what kind of man DA was. Big difference in philosophies/lifestyles, big difference in boats.

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

Cigarette has not lost it's way . If anything they are right on track. The new look 45 "Max" without the funky interior is very sharp. Jury is still out on the 39? People like the poker run boats. There will be a whole lot more of them sold this year than race boats. The guys saying that Cig is sitting back and reaping the rewards of the Fountain/OL comp. are on to something here. The last time Top Speed run-offs were this heated Cig wasn't a paticipant either . It was Fountain/Scarab back then . And one of those two is gone now ??? All in all it should be interesting to see how this all shakes out. Good Drama !

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

[QUOTE=cigarette1]Damn Clearcut3 ... you took the words right out of my fingertips ... THERE ARE NO MORE OFFSHORE RACES :eek:

REALLY? Ever been to Key West, Point Pleasant or Daytona? I have raced and won at these locations, and let me tell you, they ARE rough water races. While I agree that offshore racing has taken on a different mantra, (Not nearly as much emphasis is placed on longevity in harsh conditions) there are still a FEW true ROUGH water races. And those are the races that seperate the men from the boys.

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

Too much attention to a glorified drag race. Let's see these boats running in real offshore conditions for a descent distance. No more of this bullshzit on bays & rivers. This is not proving anything other than who can show up with the biggest motor in a hull that will hold together long enough to complete the runs. Let me see offshore boats running in offshore conditions, then we can see if Cigarette wants to come out and play.

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

IMO, the point is that Cig is resting on their laurels from what, 30 years ago?? Hell, even Cassius Clay gave up that :D :D :D

Drag races are cool, there is no doubt. But the point that they are not real world boating is an oh so valid ones. Running 6 - 7's @ in the Atlantic in a ZR, the same on a Fountain in 1000 islands, crushing the waves racing off of Daytona or Key west, hell even Alabama, these are the true tests of an offshore boat. And it is proven that the old Cigs could do this in a race situation, and win. But, Cig is continuing to boast World Champion everywhere, when they have not built a championship hull in how many years?? IMO, it's time they gave that title to Apache since it seems several of their old style hulls (not saying carbon copies here) ended up there...

Pure and simple: You want to continue boasting you have the title, you don't lay down and quit.. Donzi is back, and kicking some azz, where the hell is Cig and the loyal Cig contingent? Playing patrol boat!!

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

You just lost all credibility, I can see you are new to the boards and it sounds like you are new to offshore performance boats as well. I have run against Fountains in my Gun and when the water is rough it is amazing how fast I can walk away from them. I have also driven Fountains and know why they dont run hard in the rough. In my opinion they make a good lake boat but in the ocean they are a little scarry when the water gets nasty.

A friend just bought a 42 Tiger and repowered it with 1000's and we took it out for a run the other day. He has owned and raced Fountains in the past and said if he would have known how much Better the Cig was in the rough he would have switched brands along time ago.

We are signed up for the Scope run at the end of the month which is a 100 mile offshore run. I hope there is some good water for the run, and if there is I bet the Cigs finish ahead of the Fountains. Maybe they can make up for it on the short course inside the breakwater. :rolleyes:

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

Not too long ago !

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

BTW....Nothing against Apache....A lumpy old resin bucket 36 was the first boat into Cleveland at Eastside Poker Run....NOT a 120mph Fountain


2002 I believe ?......Tres Martin showed EVERYONE what these Cigs can do when the water turns ugly...In a 36 & a 38

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

[QUOTE=Shane]I agree shane. I didn't mean to come across that it is just a big lake race now but the venue has changed. The one thing I have noticed is at the races when the water is really nasty...you see the old resin buckets whippin *ss.

I think that Reggie has done A LOT for offshore racing and they have tried to make it spectaor friendly. In my opinion it still isn't a spectator sport and the old venues were more harsh conditions.

Like I stated it's just my opinion, but as far as the Cigs in rough water...all of us who have had the opportunity to experience all the different manufacturers know how the Cigs, Apaches, Sutphens, etc... have their place in the rough stuff. :)

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

I think ScottB was pulling our chain :rolleyes: He's been around OSO for a while and I don't think his memory is that short.

Nice one Scott :D

G

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

what gave me away, the Fountain in 6 - 7'rs?? :eek: :D :drink:

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

Law:

You refer to Cigarette and DA and the Legend, Cigarette was not the first performance boat made by DA. However Cigarette grew to a level and the name carried such recognition that it is the name today that everyone identifies with. When you think of soda, you think Coke, you think a hamburger you think McDonalds, when you think of a 4wd you think Jeep. There are many other fast food chains, Suv companies and soft drink manufacturers, however these 3 examples are the names America and the "civilized world" identify with.

Cigarette has made it very clear through public communication methods that Poker Runs are where they feel their marketing is most effective RIGHT NOW. People buy Cigarettes because of their name, their resale value, their sexiness. Not because they are the fastest boat, the least expensive boat, or possibly the best made boat. They have found a method which allows them to charge their price for their product and keep demand very high, which is good for both them and the consumer.

What makes the race course the only standard for a proving ground. McDonalds might not have the healthiest or best burger but that doesn't matter their name is the DeFacto standard in hamburgers.

The fact that Cigarette decides that racing is not the domain which best markets their products to the public, changes nothing about their "heritage", their past wins or world records. The Ferrari name was not built on last weeks win or loss, it was built in the past.

Cigarette has built their name, and they have the name recognition and reputation to build their products and sell them at a premium price. Its hard to argue with someone who throws the most money at the method which sells the most products for the most profit.

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

What other boat can you name being built today that will beat a Cig in the rough? There are other good rough water boats being built, but I honestly can't think of one that will "beat a Cig like a drum".

I know when the water gets rough out here I rarely see any other boats running with the Cigs.

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

38 Phantom, 34 Phantom.......

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

Hey, why did you take the skater away??

Re: Has Cigarette lost it's way???
 

I think that it may handle as well, but not better