496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

has anyone up graded their 496 engines with the kits by raylar ? (heads, intake manifold, cam) or any combination ? dieing to know what perf. increases you got .

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

I have a couple of questions about Ralar and the H.O.

496 H.O. 425 prop shaft h.p. or 425 Crank shaft h.p. MErc. doesn't specify on their website.

496 H.O. + Raylar alum. head + pressure increase = 503 h.p.. is that CSHP or PSHP ?

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

I believe I heard all are crank HP.

Rick

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

so assuming that is correct, the heads alone plus a fuel pressure increase are worth 75 h.P. ??

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

Merc. 496HO is 425 Prop Shaft HP in stock form.

Not sure about Raylars rating, but I would assume they are at the crank.

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

26 sonic and I were talking about this yesterday, his 502 says 415 pshp while the 496 H.O. does not specify.. do you know this for certain. ??

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

Jadento,
Why do you say it is propshaft HP for the 425HO?

I spoke w/ Dustin at Whipple, Ray at Raylar and Tyler at Crockett. All three indicated that the 425HO's that they have dynoed before doing their mods to them have been in the 410-430hp at the crank in stock form.

Rick

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

Guess I am wrong.

I have always thought 425 Prop shaft becasue of the 502MPI's 415 prop shaft rating. Kinda made since that the new motor made a few extra ponies. But I guess it dosent have to. A friend pointed out this web site below. Have a look at the fine print next to the dyno graph.

http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpower...p_brochure.pdf

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

well,, Mercs. website says that hp number and torgue #'s are confidential information,, NICE huh !!! pay 8-12 k for a motor and the info is confidential..

Anyway, I am trying to figure out if Raylar's heads alone are worth 50 or 75 hp. ??

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

ttt

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

Not to but in but ,,, A friend of mine is looking at buying 496's too . He is really thinking about the "Marine Power " motors ..... 2 years warrenty instead of 1 year from Merc , and about $3000 a peice cheaper ! Anyone have any input on these engines ? As well as the upgrades ? Thanks !

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

According to Ray there is a Nordic out west running some of the mods. I've been crossing my fingers that the program of heads/intake/cam and fuel delivery/ECM would realize the advertised potential. The theoretical (dyno) results are worth the price to me. However, the silence regarding real-world availability and experience is increasingly concerning to me.

Re: The science of power!
 

Chris288:
Our heads on a stock 496HO with the roller rockers made exactly 60Hp more than the iron heads at 5000rpms with just a 6 lb. boost in the fuel pressure.
There is no snake oil here! The stock heads on the block make 9.0 to 1 compression, ours make 10.0 to 1 compression. The stock heads flow 275cfm at .500 lift , ours flow 350cfm at .500 lift. Thats 25% more airflow alone. Couple that with a quickburn chamber and you make a lot more power! AS for everyone's real world concerns, they are not concerning to me, we will have plenty of guys running our kits in short order. We ready to perform in the real world! We love the skeptics, they become our best salesmen!
Thanks for the questions.
Ray @ Raylar

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

Ray,
I think what everyone wants to see is some actual speed increases of boats with your engine upgrade. The dyno figures certainly are good and helpful but what really counts to must of us is the actual speed increase. I am sure some people race dyno sheets but most want to see the gps number increase.

Some of the concern has to do with AZ Marine's claim of big hp gain on the 496HO and a couple guys spent the $5-6k to findout they only went 1-2mph faster. Not alot of bang for the buck.

I am not slamming you our your product. I know you have put alot of time and effort into your package as you have explained to me in detail the changes and benefits of them. We just want to see some actual performance data to compliment the dyno numbers you have shared with us.

It would be nice if some of your customers could share their experience with us.

Thanks,
Rick

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

I don't think anyone doubts the gains in HP added by the heads. By itself, I don't think 70-75 hp will gain you much in terms of speed. I would imagine, you would be out of $5k+ per engine after all is said and done.

What kind of speed increases would one see for the $ vs. $? for a cam change or $7k for a Whipple/ProCharger?

G

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

We will very soon have a couple of project boat articles in at least two of the major HP boating magazines. They will be before and after certified gps results. I certainly don't advise anyone to just run our heads. That's why we developed a new intake manifold and some great cam profiles. Most of you know that the sytem approach is the only way to get efficient power from any motor.We have real data already from the dyno of the 100HP and 140lb/ft. increases on the 496HO with stock exhaust and stock Merc ECM. Seems like this kind of power properly applied with the right prop and setup should be worth more than 2 or 3 miles an hour. If it wasn't, then why would guys shell out 45 grand for HP525's. I think the 7K cost is very justified when you consider the savings in a stock 496HO cost plus our kit versus a HP525. As for superchargers on 496's, if the 496 had good stock heads and strong pistons, then a supercharger addition would definity be the best bang for the buck. Problem is the 496 doesn't have those items without an expensive rebuild. As I've said before, Raylar is very patient, we will prove ourselves and our products or not to many people are going to buy them and Heck, I am not doing this for my health!
Thanks for the feedback, it's healthy.
Raylar

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

Any news about testing
Has somebody tested one of Raylars kits until now ?

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

TTT..... anybody have any info YET !!!!!

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

There is a guy in Socal who just took delivery of a 29 Shockwave with twin 496's. I believe that he plans to install the Raylar kit on his motor fairly soon and that he plans to post his results.

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

Waiting patiently for some results... not !!!.. :D

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

P.S. did that tech. article that Ray was talking about ever come out ?? I belive it was supposed to be in hot-boat.. ??

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

the article is in hot boat may's issue (part 1) and part 2 should be in junes issue . I have the may issue but does'nt show any water testing , must be in the june issue .

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

Thanks Tony,, what does part 1 consist of ?????? installation maybe ??

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

There are quite a few boats around the country and even in Europe with our kits now. I will not put our customers names and numbers out on an open forum for courtesy and privacy reasons but anyone who needs to talk to an actual Raylar user and our installing dealers can PM me or call at our toll free number(866)496-8181 and I can give them some contact info so they can verify our products and performance for themselves. Please keep in mind that a 100HP addtion to a motor in different boats, with different hull types, weights and set ups will net different results. There are a few things that need to be done to almost any boat adding 100HP per motor in the way of propping and triming that will help realize the best results from the addtional power. No two different boats will be the same or have the same results and their is no set formula or way to exactly determine results in each case without trials and testing. I can tell you that in every case of a Raylar install the boaters have seen significant power increases that result in not only addtional speed, but quicker acceleration and faster cruising speeds at old cruising rpms. I sometimes really believe that these are actually more important than all out top speed, because these benifits are at the speeds and condtions where most boats spend most of their running time. To answer Chris288 about horsepower increases with heads only its kind of a misnomer because the factory intake manifold is not capable of feeding enough air to our new heads to have a heads only 496 make its power at 4500 to 5000rpm levels where horsepower is at its peak. This is exactly why we recommend and market our products as a kit. This allows all the components , heads, cam and induction in the kit to work together to acheive the overall desired result. Just installing heads only is kind of like putting huge brakes on a car with tiny tires. The brakes can stop the wheels & tires, but the tires can't stop the car!

Re: 496 engines with raylar parts ?
 

Thanks for the reply Ray,,, Heads and rockers, are do-able at this point and possibly the cam, have the funds and someone willing to do the installation,, if this is not going to yield at least some performance gains in the 50 hp range than I guess it's just not worth going through the trouble.. :(

Well this is a 5yr old thread that pulls up on Google without any ending results...I'm looking at more power, but I haven't seen anyone bragging about the increases in speed and power from installing this kit. I'm guessing the bang for the buck didn't weigh out? If 2-3mph is all thats achieved by 5-10k I'll save the money for blue power or whipples and a rebuild. Is there any real # gps speeds out there?

I can't give solid numbers yet. But it looks like my 2005 Sunsation 288 is going to gain at a minimum of 8 if not 12+ MPH! I did install headers and an ECM flashed by whipple for the Raylar install. All I can say after one good testrun is the motor is awesome!

If you guys still want some answers, hit up tfarmer on here for his Raylar experience.....

I've done several Raylar kits and dyno'd them. They make the power claimed. I have run 2 identical boats side by side. One Raylar and one Merc 525 EFI. They ran dead even.

irishtornado, You might want to call Crockett, he is in your area and I gained 15 mph with my 500's hp's aftrer he did his tweaking. I still need to play with props and might squeeze a mph or 2 outif it still but it run great now and after I broke my hand last year High speed boating time was greatly reduced.

Guys,

From my limited experience, I'm guessing that adding 50 horsepower would yield a few more miles per hour on top. But ... Cat or V-bottom? Setup? (Props, X-dimension, gear ratio, etc.) Boat weight? Twin or single engine application? The variables are many and the actual top speed gain obviously will vary from boat to boat.

The gain is boat-specific. Always.

So maybe the top-end gain isn't a huge as you might like, but adding 50 hp more might help your boat come on plane more quickly. It might improve overall acceleration.

Just stuff to consider.

Just so you know, I put up quite a bit of info about this stuff a while ago. There are others who have posted speeds as well. I can't remember names...

My boat ran 68+ stock. Raylar 525 kit same boat ran 78. Went to Raylar 600 and ran 86+.

Blue printed the bottom and am now finishing the prop. Broke a blade off my prop today so have to start over. I can't figure out why some of you are saying that "there is no proof" yet. My info is way old and I certainly was not the first to jump on board. Good luck! It's fun.

PS I've seen more than one engine with these kits on them that were "hacked". If you're gonna spend money to upgrade, take your time; do it right; have some extra money for incidentals that we all forget about. If not, you'll wind up doing it twice anyway... Make sure if you paint or powdercoat do a good job of cleaning every nook and cranny of the intake aftwards. Make sure to buy some AN Fitting caps for the oil cooler that thread all the way on etc... If you guys want to talk to me, send me pm with your phone number and i'll call you after business hours PST.

I've posted this several times but I'll do it again. I did a comprehensive test on the Raylar kit including prop shaft and engine dyno tests, before and after speed runs and different header configuration. I wrote an article about it that can be found on my web site. Check it out.

http://fullthrottlemarine.com/496%20...%20Article.htm

Bob

Excellent, no-nonsense test report Bob. I would love to see a similar test and report on a LSM-550 swap.

Is there anyone out there with real world performance data on the LSM-550 they would like to share?

Not only was this the most robust, well documented test on the topic but I am still quite amazed that someone would go to this length and expense in both, time and money only to share it for FREE!! There are some good humans left in the industry. Bob is one.

If you live near his shop and you don't do your own work, I can't think of a better place to drop your boat for service.

Great write up!

Chris

Did you personally install the HO600 kit or have it done?

The 600 is a completely different bottom end. That gets done by Raylar (line boring, decking, crank, rods, pistons, rings, etc)

The rest is a matter of taking your time. Adjusting the roller rockers needs a feel that I don't have. I'd say that's the only other area where you really either need to know what it feels like or get someone to help.

Other than the bottom end and the roller lifter adjustment did you do the rest yourself?