staggered engines
10-04-2004 | 06:34 AM
#21
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Re: staggered engines
Excellent stagger post MC ! Just to add a couple of notes, stagger's allow ya to run faster with less throttling in a chop as they don't unload the props as often ( easier on drives ) they also fly straighter when coming off of confused waves as they tend to unload together reducing the twist or roll as one unloads later. On the saddle tank front we were able to reduce the roll effect by keeping the tanks low and contoured to the hull bottom for the most capacity, they're under the diamond plate below and hold 75 gal each.
10-04-2004 | 08:40 AM
#23
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,769
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From: tn
Re: staggered engines
WWon, HUGE thumbs up.
Reed,
I agree about the weirdness of the backwards motors, but I've seen a bunch of em in old vee drive and straight IB drags. (usually no belts, no accessories). As with most unconventional installations, there are pros and cons.
I'll find pix.
Reed,
I agree about the weirdness of the backwards motors, but I've seen a bunch of em in old vee drive and straight IB drags. (usually no belts, no accessories). As with most unconventional installations, there are pros and cons.
I'll find pix.
10-04-2004 | 10:20 AM
#24
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Joined: May 2001
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From: Minnesota
Re: staggered engines
Will the big Sun be a full stagger of just a partial stager. I thought I read in another post that it was just going to be a partial stagger. You really don't get the full benefit with partial because the drive lives are still the same. Right?
10-04-2004 | 07:57 PM
#27
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From: IL...XLOTO
Re: staggered engines
The new Sunsation will be partial staggered. I believe that is pretty much how most of the staggered setups are. My understanding is that takes the drives from about 3 feet off center to about 2 feet, so it moves the drives about a foot closer together.
10-05-2004 | 09:38 AM
#28
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From: Western Michigan
Re: staggered engines
Originally Posted by mcollinstn
Oh, a staggered driveline (forward motor) won't bolt up properly to an Imco box due to lack of inside support bearing. Would require custom jackshaft.
Staggered driveline will work just dandy with a Stellings box.
Not exactly sure how it is handled with the forward motor and the ITS box...
At any rate, it shouldn't be a huge deal to make any of the three work with a staggered setup.
The Weissmann inline setup boasts some even cooler techno points. The "reversed" engine cives a true counterrotation of the crankshafts which truly cancels the engine's torque moment. Most conventional sterndrive installations still have the engines both rotating the same direction, even though the props spin opposite. The weissmann allows standard engine rotation (which allows standard camshafts, standard windage trays, standard oilpans, standard piston pin offsets, etc.) yet delivers the power off the "wrong end" of the motor for true counterrotation.
Also the transmission and drive setup REALLY let you lower the engines all the way to the fiberglass for some record setting low CG ability.
Aside from that, the Weissmann drives are the just cool. I'd love a pair.
BUT - the Weissmann setup adds a full foot or more between the two motors, making it an application that can only be considered sensible in a raceboat. First, you still have the transom hardware for the drive inputs. The "belt dies" of the rear motor must be forward enough to clear that crap. Then you got bellhousings on the motor and then the weissmann U drive and Z drive combo thingy. This booger has GOT to eat up at least a foot between the bellhousings, maybe more. Then you got a bellhousing on the back of the front motor and it goes forward from there. This is a LOOOONG setup. And routing exhaust thru the transom would be "interesting".
I think a more conventional TWIST on the reversed motor idea is to simply turn one motor around "wrong way" and use a snout coupler similar to those used on some of the old Vee drive drag boats. This would allow you to still snuggle the motors closer together, cram the rear motor against the transom plate, and pull the backseat bulkhead all the way up to the front motor's abbreviated bellhousing. No need to leave room for belt maintenance and power steering, etc. Sumpin to think about anyhow..
Staggered driveline will work just dandy with a Stellings box.
Not exactly sure how it is handled with the forward motor and the ITS box...
At any rate, it shouldn't be a huge deal to make any of the three work with a staggered setup.
The Weissmann inline setup boasts some even cooler techno points. The "reversed" engine cives a true counterrotation of the crankshafts which truly cancels the engine's torque moment. Most conventional sterndrive installations still have the engines both rotating the same direction, even though the props spin opposite. The weissmann allows standard engine rotation (which allows standard camshafts, standard windage trays, standard oilpans, standard piston pin offsets, etc.) yet delivers the power off the "wrong end" of the motor for true counterrotation.
Also the transmission and drive setup REALLY let you lower the engines all the way to the fiberglass for some record setting low CG ability.
Aside from that, the Weissmann drives are the just cool. I'd love a pair.
BUT - the Weissmann setup adds a full foot or more between the two motors, making it an application that can only be considered sensible in a raceboat. First, you still have the transom hardware for the drive inputs. The "belt dies" of the rear motor must be forward enough to clear that crap. Then you got bellhousings on the motor and then the weissmann U drive and Z drive combo thingy. This booger has GOT to eat up at least a foot between the bellhousings, maybe more. Then you got a bellhousing on the back of the front motor and it goes forward from there. This is a LOOOONG setup. And routing exhaust thru the transom would be "interesting".
I think a more conventional TWIST on the reversed motor idea is to simply turn one motor around "wrong way" and use a snout coupler similar to those used on some of the old Vee drive drag boats. This would allow you to still snuggle the motors closer together, cram the rear motor against the transom plate, and pull the backseat bulkhead all the way up to the front motor's abbreviated bellhousing. No need to leave room for belt maintenance and power steering, etc. Sumpin to think about anyhow..
NKBTW My engine room would look as clean as ww's too if I never went boating.
10-09-2004 | 06:45 PM
#29
www.weismann.net
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,249
Likes: 2
From: newport beach,ca
Re: staggered engines
I know this is off the subject but I will add a few things.
Mcollinstn did a great job on describing the set-up the only thing is the motors face flywheel to flywheel, The power is taken from the flywheel. The system is automatically counter rotating when the motor is installed backwards.
I changed water pumps on nigels boat and it was not that bad. The serpentine belt is a pain but to re-install when the motor is warm but cold would have been a breeze.
The photos Reed showed were of the Fountain project with the #6 drives. We ran a very tight centers on that one. Nigel does not run the rear boxes, just straight into the WSD drives.
The distance between the flywheels is being reduced. It is now 15 inches. We redesigned the dropbox/FNR to shorten the distance. Most of the room was needed to clear the double cooler bellhousing. We are now making a purpose built housing to accomidate our dropbox system.
The whole set-up was put into a standard staggard engine bay. The motors in-line it now allows us to use the waisted space that the engines were using up. We are working on a purpose built boat to show off the entire set-up. The exhaust will merge just after the rear motor into two (one port one starboard) tail pipes at 6 inch dia. It should sound pretty mean.
The boat inside is about real estate. side by side (SBS) more room Aft cg and high cg. Saggard less room better high speed handling fore cg and lower not so great low speed. Wider centers (SBS) better control around the dock.
Weismann In-Line, the best of both worlds and then some.
pat W
Mcollinstn did a great job on describing the set-up the only thing is the motors face flywheel to flywheel, The power is taken from the flywheel. The system is automatically counter rotating when the motor is installed backwards.
I changed water pumps on nigels boat and it was not that bad. The serpentine belt is a pain but to re-install when the motor is warm but cold would have been a breeze.
The photos Reed showed were of the Fountain project with the #6 drives. We ran a very tight centers on that one. Nigel does not run the rear boxes, just straight into the WSD drives.
The distance between the flywheels is being reduced. It is now 15 inches. We redesigned the dropbox/FNR to shorten the distance. Most of the room was needed to clear the double cooler bellhousing. We are now making a purpose built housing to accomidate our dropbox system.
The whole set-up was put into a standard staggard engine bay. The motors in-line it now allows us to use the waisted space that the engines were using up. We are working on a purpose built boat to show off the entire set-up. The exhaust will merge just after the rear motor into two (one port one starboard) tail pipes at 6 inch dia. It should sound pretty mean.
The boat inside is about real estate. side by side (SBS) more room Aft cg and high cg. Saggard less room better high speed handling fore cg and lower not so great low speed. Wider centers (SBS) better control around the dock.
Weismann In-Line, the best of both worlds and then some.
pat W
