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Old 10-04-2004, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: F1 class

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmhdfan
The HP3 is a 496 motor.
The block is the same, yes.
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Old 10-04-2004, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: F1 class

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmhdfan
Just wondering, what broke on the motors?
1st- pushrod through rocker
2nd- bad ecm and bad long block rebuild by Merc/Marine Max resulting in a new "on the pallett motor being sent out
3rd holding up but had a heat exchanger and crossover give out.
All in all I was down 3 months this season because of these things, no compensation or even an apology from Merc, I really don't agree with the contention they have 'great" customer service, at least not in my case. i didn't get any service until they knew I was serious about suing them and Marine Max, it shouldn't have to come to that to get some decent service.

BTW, my ecm's checked out with no abuse and a handful of over revs, the 3rd motor is the only one that has been in ocean water.

Mercruiser 496HO Just not a good idea.
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Old 10-04-2004, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: F1 class

And to put us back on topic, I really like the looks of the Vee Lite class, good teams and some kick ass action, I am going to see if the new season is posted on OSS.
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Old 10-04-2004, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: F1 class

Quote:
Originally Posted by KACHINA KEN
1st- pushrod through rocker
2nd- bad ecm and bad long block rebuild by Merc/Marine Max resulting in a new "on the pallett motor being sent out
3rd holding up but had a heat exchanger and crossover give out.
All in all I was down 3 months this season because of these things, no compensation or even an apology from Merc, I really don't agree with the contention they have 'great" customer service, at least not in my case. i didn't get any service until they knew I was serious about suing them and Marine Max, it shouldn't have to come to that to get some decent service.

BTW, my ecm's checked out with no abuse and a handful of over revs, the 3rd motor is the only one that has been in ocean water.

Mercruiser 496HO Just not a good idea.

1. Did you loose the whole motor?

2. I could see where a bad ECM could melt a motor.
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Old 10-04-2004, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: F1 class

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmhdfan
1. Did you loose the whole motor?

2. I could see where a bad ECM could melt a motor.
1st
2nd
3rd
all represent individual motors
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Old 10-04-2004, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: F1 class

Quote:
Originally Posted by RLW
There was a moment in recent F1 history where 4 engines were allowed.
HP500 Carb, HP500 EFI, HP525 EFI, and the GM Vortec 525.
That is what killed the class.
Had the leadership kept the same concept (one engine) as was established at the onset of F1, It would still be a strong class today.
I agree and disagree.
It wasn't the APBA leadership that wanted to change engines. GM wanted to introduce the Vortec into the class. APBA wouldn't because of the agreement with Mercury Racing. Problem was, Mercury Racing claimed they were going to stop production of the HP500, so APBA would have to accept the new 525 in the Factory classes. Since the HP500's would no longer be available, any new teams would have no way to buy new engines. As it happens, the Vortec HP3 was almost the same horsepower as the 525, so APBA allowed both in, but boats with these engines would have substantial weight penalties. It gets more detailed and more complicated from there, but this is where I agree with RLW that too many engine choices helped the decline of the class.
Last year, there was a meeting involving Factory class teams and Mercury Racing leaders. Since many of us paid full price for our engine/drive packages, promoted (by class rules) the "Mercury Racing" name on our boats and uniforms yet were allowed no kind of warranty, we were simply asking if we could get "a little something for the effort". Either a break on price, or some kind of warranty, maybe another engine package for Factory class so we could all go back to the same power.
They weren't interested.
A few weeks later at a meeting of APBA officials and Factory teams they discussed using a Mercruiser 496 Mag HO, or some spec built 496 with identical HP using dry exhaust. The final rating would be approx 470 horsepower. Ironically, this was the same HP that we all started out with when everyone ran carbed HP500's and ran in the low 80mph range. Every one at the meeting seemed to be all for it. Unfortunately a few weeks later, a small handfull decided they wanted Mercury racing engines, but still couldn't agree on which one. Some even wanted to stay with the HP500 which we can no longer get, even if it meant no new teams coming into the sport. So, in the end there was no changes whatsoever, all the engines are still allowed, and the class went downhill anyway. Again Ironically, some of those very teams left APBA and went to OSS, only to find they have no Factory class or any open cockpit boats at all. This may be one reason why there are so many old Factory 1 boats racing in APBA and SBI P-4.
I'm sure there will be some that agree, and some that will argue the point, but as much as I respect the guys on the Mercury Racing truck, it is my opinion that the upper brass of Mercury Racing is much of the reason why Factory class is in the situation it's in. I agree that Factory racing needs to go back to one motor/one drive. But, paying less than half for an engine that will last all season and still run close to 80mph sounds like a great deal to me no matter whose name is on the breather.
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Old 10-04-2004, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: F1 class

OK back on topic. The Extreme has the upper hand I think because of all the R&D that went into the Vortex program. Nothing substitutes for set up time. I could only imagine how many hours Steve and Gary had in that boat with different set ups. The F1 & F2 boats were just going too fast (can't believe I just said that!) for safety. I always enjoyed factory racing because it was something you could relate with. Everyone has a favorite brand that they liked to see win. And this bought attention to the brand that would win. The average boater would look at a certain brand after seeing it win a race. But Factory race boats where nothing close to what the average boater could buy. But times have changed. I can remember a time when Factory racing to me was Apache's, Cig's, and Scarab's. Damm I must be getting old!
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Old 10-04-2004, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: F1 class

Quote:
Originally Posted by KACHINA KEN
1st
2nd
3rd
all represent individual motors

So do I understand this right. You lost a whole motor because a rocker arm failed?
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Old 10-04-2004, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: F1 class

Motor #1, pushrod through the rocker arm or something to that extent, I just break em' don't work on em but yeah it was something like that.
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Old 10-04-2004, 09:48 PM
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Default Re: F1 class

Gordo,
Great explanation. I just didn't want to get into the details.
I was a huge fan of F-1. Especially with BJ and Kowalski running the Activators. Like it was mentioned, we all had our favorites. We could relate to the drivers and crews very easily.
It got very complicated towards the end. Sad to say the least but we still have the memories.
Now, about that "A" Class racing........................
Russ
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