Legal Question....
 

I purchased some new motors off a guy on OSO. They turned out to be total junk and they were not at all what the guy said they were. I paid for two running 500 hp + or - running long blocks. I specifically asked him if they were runners and if they had good oil preasure and so on. Of course all answers were yes.... He also said that he had the exhaust manifolds and would sell them to me as well. I was told that they were EMI's and that they were in good shape and only needed to be repainted.

Ok so they finally ship after some time but that was no big deal because as we all know I am in no rush for them at this time....

When they arrive I am a little worried but figure I will take them up to my builder and see what he says. Well Timmy took them apart and hear is the deal. Everything in these two motors is junk except for the castings of the heads (Merlins) and one of the cranks. Rods, other crank, blocks, valves, springs, you name it they are all junk. This guy TOTALLY misrepresented these things. The exhaust is also another issue as they were not EMI's they were Gills. Had I known that I would have never purchased them as I think that Gills suck. To add insult to injury one of them is totally cracked and they did a hack weld job on it.

The guy that sold this stuff to me does not seem to want to take it back. I have tried to be nice about it and get him to see things my way. He does seem willing to give me some of my money back but so far we are a LONG way away from were I want to be (all my money back).

What I am wondering is if I can take this guy to court on this. Is it worth it (would I likely win), and can I file in my state or do I have to file in his. These were shipped using Forward Air (freight co).

Thanks for the time and help
Jon

Re: Legal Question....
 

Without a written contract this is pretty much a civil case. $$$ for lawyer probably not worth it. However e-mails from the seller and you may hold up for criminal case. The bottom dwelling scum have absolutely no fear of civil suits. Can't get blood out of a turnip. However criminal fraud felony's are another story. Talk to an investigator in the sellers home city or county. Be persistent. It may take over A YEAR to even get charges filed. You will have to provide all documentation pertaining to the sale and an affidavit from at least two REPUTABLE engine shops with a good business history. Check BBB on YOUR references. You will have to call the investigator every week. You need to get him on your side to even pursue the case to point of even going to the prosecutor to bring charges. Was this seller in the Tallahassee area of the panhandle? If he was PM me and we can exchange phone # and discuss further. This is first hand experience. Joe Murray.

Re: Legal Question....
 

From a crimial atty's perspective, I can tell you that you would have a weak case. But if what you want is your money back, you need to go the civil route. Jurisdiction (what state to file in) depends on several factors but if you want to be able to enforce any potential judgment, I would suggest that you file in his state; i.e. where his assets are. Which court to file in also depends on the amount of $ involved. I strongly suggest you hire an atty to pursue it on your behalf. Good luck, it sounds like a real bum deal. BTW, out him if he doesn't do the right thing.

Re: Legal Question....
 

If he and I do not come to a agreement then I Will out him. As for now we are still talking and I still HOPE. I know that he will not want to give me all my money back so I am going for as much as I can.... The problem with MA is this is over the 3000 buck small claims limit. Not sure how much that matters.... As Fatdaddy has stated if I win and he does not pay then what good does that do me.... This just sucks no matter how you cut it. I try and do the right thing by people and hope that is what I get in return. I have had WONDERFUL luck buying things on this board. I guess it was just a matter of time. I will certainly be very gun shy from now on if I ever guy again....

Re: Legal Question....
 

Sounds like even if you get some of your money back it is still a forkin! What a shame. It's posts like this that scare alot of buyers! The boys are right. I bought a Procharger a few years back and went the court route and got a great forkin... guy changed addresses etc and I won the case and I am still without a Procharger. He went out of business(very small shop) and I was out over 3 grand..
After a while this dude got back into the business and I found out. I drove to his place and just about threatened to kill him, He remembered me :D and decided, while almost coming to tears, to sobbingly give me $1500. To this day I am still f*cking with the guy. I have a few friends that have made his life miserable. I guess I like to think out of the box and use every tool in the shed to get my $$$$. I have since moved from that area and to risk him getting crazy over the rest of the money and me maybe getting in real trouble I took the 1500 and forgot about the rest.... for now. Last I heard he was broke- d*ck anyway and son just got killed in a car wreck so I have since backed off...

Re: Legal Question....
 

Jon,
I hope it works out for you in the end. If this guy doesn't come clean with you then expose him on OSO so nobody deals with him again. Enough people on this board know who you are (and know you personally) ---that gives you alot of credibility. :drink:

Re: Legal Question....
 

I would call him and tell him three things:

1) Give me ALL my money back and I will ship, COD, the engines back to him

If he doesn't:

2) Out him on OSO

3) I'd make him "an offer he couldn't refuse". And I'm not kidding. I don't deal with lawyers and the legal system, no matter what we always get screwed by somebody.

Re: Legal Question....
 

out him :mad:

Re: Legal Question....
 

A friend of mine (fellow OSO member) bought 2 HP500's from someone on this board (who is also an OSO member) and it was basically the same deal as yours Jon!! He lost an entire boating season over this and an azzload of $$$ to make the engines run.


Jon,
Call me @ 202-224-5499....I'd love to know if it's the same guy :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I'll put you in touch with the other person if it's the same guy and maybe you can both nail him.

Craig

Re: Legal Question....
 

I had to resort to Old School tactics(personal appearance) to get anything back. He knew he couldnt get in much trouble so he screwed me.... The 1600 I left him with was by no means close to worth the amount of crap I put him through. It was the whole point of thinking he could screw with me. After doing "the right thing" for society.. I did the right thing for me.. and all it cost me was 10 bucks in gas.... as opposed to 2 grand in lawyer's fees to get nothing.

Re: Legal Question....
 

Ask him how much his broken knee caps will cost him when he "accidently" falls down. Just kidding, but this sort of thing happens too often.

Re: Legal Question....
 

For christ sakes, Stecz, refund Jon's money!

Re: Legal Question....
 

Yup,
Jon got boned pretty bad. I was present when these motors were torn down. They are nothing but a pile of junk that most people would take to the dump. They were heavily corroded, some of the cylinders were full of rust, pistons seized, on their last bore etc.etc.

The bottom line is, they were grossly misrepresented. Jon thought he was buying a pair of usable long blocks. $4200.00 for a pile of cast iron is what was delivered to him.

I sure hope this guy steps up to the plate and refunds his $$$

It just plain kills me how many chit peddlers there are in this foolish "hobby" :(

Kurt

Re: Legal Question....
 

i would appreciate if you did not use the lords name in vain kev, and no i wont give his money back.... that what he gets for being a m a s s h o l e

sucks jon, nail the a s s h o l e. he knew what he was selling you, give me the word ill send mario and uncle vito after him. dont get lawyers involved, they f u c k up everything... right kev......

Re: Legal Question....
 

stecz, you are such a goon :D :D :D

Re: Legal Question....
 

hows my rig kurt, you keeping her nice for me.....

Re: Legal Question....
 

Jon... Spill it!!! This A-hole needs to go down!!! :mad:

Why in the world would an OSO member sell another member junk!!!!
Do they really think that it wouldn't get out..... :snide:

Re: Legal Question....
 

I heard this story from Jon and he really is getting a raw deal on the motors

Re: Legal Question....
 

You need to do everyone on OSO a big favor and out the seller so someone else won't get burned.

Re: Legal Question....
 

OUT the rat bastard :rolleyes:

Re: Legal Question....
 

how did you pay? if by credit card call your c.c company and they can make things go your way.

Re: Legal Question....
 

Yeah, did you 'really' post this to seek legal advise, or are you trying to make him sweat? :D
OSO brothers have cost you some serious change. Good luck on this one.

Re: Legal Question....
 

how did you pay? if by credit card call your c.c company and they can make things go your way.

Re: Legal Question....
 

Out him before anyone else here gets the shaft.

Sorry about your situation Jon.

Re: Legal Question....
 

Jon, let his name out you`ll feel better. TRUST ME

Re: Legal Question....
 

Out him. :evilb:

Re: Legal Question....
 

Out Him and let him have it....http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/14/14_6_12.gif

Re: Legal Question....
 

OUT HIM NOW!!
You'll be doing a public service. Scammers are scum and many know that just ignoring the problem will make it eventually go away. This forum is your only chance.

Re: Legal Question....
 

Come out...spit him out :evilb:

Re: Legal Question....
 

I am giving him two more days to do the right thing. If not then look for a new thread. He is claiming that he could have sold the motors local for 2 grand for the pair to a mechanic and it would have been a done deal. What he fails to realize is that I could care less about. I am into these motors now for 5,500 bucks or more (still have not gotten the labor build from my builder to tear them down and sonic test the blocks and what not) and all I have is a big NOTHING except for two Gill Exhaust manifolds..... So basically he is going to get two more days to realize that in this case there will be no winners. He thinks that he is out the 2 grand he could have gotten and even if he gives me back all my money I am still out two grand.... I would be happy with all my money back or real close to it but not with what he seems to be offering whitch is he keeps 2 grand and gives me 2 grand back.... If not then we will post up the name, address, and phone numbers and then the torture process can begin :D:D

Jon

Re: Legal Question....
 

Craig I know who you are talking about and no this is not the same person. These motors came from San Fran. CA

Jon

Re: Legal Question....
 

What I was really hopeing to know at this point is do I have to take him to court in my own state or his state? If I win I think the guy would pay but then again you never know....

Jon

Re: Legal Question....
 

Jon, post the name and # and the wrath of OSO shall decend upon him. Russ

Re: Legal Question....
 

This is TOTAL BULLSH*T This guy knew up front he was screwing you. He knew it, and did it anyway. Tell that S O B you want all your money back PERIOD! If you are reading this thread who ever you are. I can tell tell you now if he had sold this crap to some of the guys I know including myself I"d be knocking on your door by now. :mad:

Screw him, He screwed You and knowingly screwed you.

Tell us who it is! :mad:

Re: Legal Question....
 

I agree, he knew what he was selling. And still sold them.

Re: Legal Question....
 

Jon, as I said in my earlier post, sue himn his state.

Re: Legal Question....
 

Post some pics of the internals of the motors.

Re: Legal Question....
 

Don't have any. Maybe Biggus can do that for me.

Jon

Re: Legal Question....
 

The mess is still at the machine shop. no pics at this time.

Did the chit peddler contact you?

Kurt

Re: Legal Question....
 

This is the latest email that I fired off to him.

Ted lets just get this whole mess over with. I am currently into these motors for aprox. 5600-5800 dollars (I am sill waiting for the exact bill from the machine shop and builder.) This does not include the cost of the three trips up to Maine at a hundred bucks or so a pop that I will have to make and all the waisted time. The fact that you were offered 1000 dollars by a local mechanic really has no bearing on me what so ever. I find it very hard to believe that anyone that actually saw these motors would have offered you that much money. Maybe that was before they were left out in the rain and rusted up? Remember there was a cylinder FULL of water and another with a wasp nest in it. One of the motors had milk shake looking oil in it. This only happens from when a motor is run with water leaking in it. I find it hard to believe that you or your mechanic did not know about the oil not looking normal. All I can tell you is that I am not happy to have spent a lot of money that took me a lot of time to save up and got a pile of junk in return. If the shoe was on the other foot I would not hesitate to send you ALL your money back. In fact I have in the past sent out parts and they were not the correct ones and refunded all the customers money. I have done everything that I can to salvage this deal but it just is not possible. There is NOTHING in these motors worth saving. You say that you are going to be out 2000 bucks if you send me my money back. If you are to give me all my money back I also will be out 2000 dollars. I would say that is fair. At that we both loose the same amount of money. Yes it sucks for both of us but I would say that is what is fair. Please give me my money back Ted it is the right thing to do. If you want all or part of the parts back I am more then happy to crate them up and send them to you but honestly they are not worth waisting any more money on. I just want this to be over with I do not want it to drag on. I was so excited to get these motors and now the fact that I spent all my money on junk has me so mad.

So we will see what reply that gets me......