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Velcro lap belts sold by Tiger Marine

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Old 08-21-2007, 04:48 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by dgduck13 View Post
So what is the best solution to keep the passengers safely in the rear seat?
I only know that APBA would not allow belts in an open boat. I am assuming if the boat goes over....body stays in the boat, head comes off.

I didn't ask to be a smart a$$, just wondered if there is a real safety concern or not.
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Old 08-21-2007, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_velocity View Post
I only know that APBA would not allow belts in an open boat. I am assuming if the boat goes over....body stays in the boat, head comes off.

I didn't ask to be a smart a$$, just wondered if there is a real safety concern or not.
I am thinking the same thing. I am trying to find out what everyone else does to keep passengers safe at higher speeds. Some one out there has to have the best soultion to keep the rear passengers safe in a 30' cat.

Thanks
Don
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Old 08-21-2007, 06:37 PM
  #23
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Default Big Questions...trying to save a life or two

Wow!!!!

1. I never saw those before (lap belts).

I like most of Tiger's stuff, but I really question the wisdom here. Bottom line, if an open cockpit boat barrel rolls and you are belted into a good upright seat....you're toast. Your head and torso will become an object held in place against high velocity water. (Picture a hole in the bottom of your boat with your head sticking through it at planing speed). Obviously if you barrel roll without them there is a good chance of injury as well, but at least you have a chance of bouncing out with minor injuries...... not always but you have a chance. Belt yourself in..and even that chance evaporates.

2. An earlier reply talked about 1" thick Lexan canopies as if that was better than a thinner version. Canopies only provide security if they are completely closed with a sealed hatch, mounted properly according to F-16 guidelines and with proper grommets and spacing, completely watertight sealed at the base and reinforced with roll cage and proper deck and cockpit construction. In all other cases be prepared to get hit in the head with your dislodged"safety canopies" at whatever speed you are going during an accident. There is a good reason why all of the current canopied raceboats have custom canopies that are more fiberglass than polycarbonate. The earlier F-16 canopies could not stand up to anything other than a direct stuff at less than 100 mph. 100+ MPH Accidents, side impacts, back flips and barrel rolls basically tore them apart. If they had open tops the water came rushing in and exploded both the canopy and the cockpit...they essentially become a scoop and cannot withstand the internal pressure.

Final point, when in doubt about safety....don't ask anyone but an experienced racer, or racing safety official. The typical pleasure boater and many manufacturers don't have a clue in this area.

T2x

Last edited by T2x; 08-21-2007 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 08-21-2007, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Stormrider View Post
I put these on the rear bench of my pantera.
I cut the metal plates off the ends, and had industrial velcro(loop side) sewn on the ends, and put the hook side on the bench, under the seat padding. Seat padding was removable w/ a hatch/storage underneath.
The kids(4-6yrs) wore them to stop them from getting up and moving around while underway.
I thought about the flipping. I thought the odds of the kids getting up and crawling onto the engine hatch were much greater than me flipping, at least while they were aboard.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-C...spagenameZWDVW
I agree the chances of someone getting tossed around or ejected is MUCH higher than the boat rolling. Still a catch 22.
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Old 08-21-2007, 07:39 PM
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FYI, we never installed lap belts for the various reasons mentioned in this thread (started almost 3 years ago).

Due

Last edited by Dueclaws; 08-21-2007 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 08-21-2007, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by T2x View Post
The earlier F-16 canopies could not stand up to anything other than a direct stuff at less than 100 mph. 100+ MPH Accidents, side impacts, back flips and barrel rolls basically tore them apart. If they had open tops the water came rushing in and exploded both the canopy and the cockpit...they essentially become a scoop and cannot withstand the internal pressure.T2x
This is in fact true, but not for the implied reason. The reason the "full" F-16 canopies failed was not because of the integrity of the canopies. The canopies depend on and gain exponential strength based on integrity and structural stability of the structure to which they are attached. If the structure flexed upon impact, that compromises the integrity of the canopy by changing the way the load is transferred from the canopy to the structure thereby creating a stress point, and thus a failure. You're correct about the partial canopies becoming a scoop and failing-they were not designed to take loads from the inside.
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Old 08-21-2007, 08:41 PM
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thanks T2x , its all true .art
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Old 08-21-2007, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by onesickpantera View Post
I agree the chances of someone getting tossed around or ejected is MUCH higher than the boat rolling. Still a catch 22.
I agree 100% with this comment, however IF you do roll the boat instead of picking up 1 person in the water who will be alive and wet you may be picking up 2 pieces of that same person. You really need to look at survivability of each and make your determination based on that risk. Only takes 1 flip to have a deadly result.
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Old 08-21-2007, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by T2x View Post
Wow!!!!

1. I never saw those before (lap belts).

I like most of Tiger's stuff, but I really question the wisdom here. Bottom line, if an open cockpit boat barrel rolls and you are belted into a good upright seat....you're toast. Your head and torso will become an object held in place against high velocity water. (Picture a hole in the bottom of your boat with your head sticking through it at planing speed). Obviously if you barrel roll without them there is a good chance of injury as well, but at least you have a chance of bouncing out with minor injuries...... not always but you have a chance. Belt yourself in..and even that chance evaporates.

2. An earlier reply talked about 1" thick Lexan canopies as if that was better than a thinner version. Canopies only provide security if they are completely closed with a sealed hatch, mounted properly according to F-16 guidelines and with proper grommets and spacing, completely watertight sealed at the base and reinforced with roll cage and proper deck and cockpit construction. In all other cases be prepared to get hit in the head with your dislodged"safety canopies" at whatever speed you are going during an accident. There is a good reason why all of the current canopied raceboats have custom canopies that are more fiberglass than polycarbonate. The earlier F-16 canopies could not stand up to anything other than a direct stuff at less than 100 mph. 100+ MPH Accidents, side impacts, back flips and barrel rolls basically tore them apart. If they had open tops the water came rushing in and exploded both the canopy and the cockpit...they essentially become a scoop and cannot withstand the internal pressure.

Final point, when in doubt about safety....don't ask anyone but an experienced racer, or racing safety official. The typical pleasure boater and many manufacturers don't have a clue in this area.

T2x

Ditto.....many many years on here and I think we've 100% agreed twice!
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_velocity View Post
I agree 100% with this comment, however IF you do roll the boat instead of picking up 1 person in the water who will be alive and wet you may be picking up 2 pieces of that same person. You really need to look at survivability of each and make your determination based on that risk. Only takes 1 flip to have a deadly result.
I agree. The damages for the BIG IF are could be great. Like I said, it's a catch 22.

However, did anyone call the company and ask about the belts? They probably have a velcro closure for a reason. The velcro would simply peel apart if a lot of force was applied, like on a kneeboard. Unlike a full blown harness.

#1 complaint from girls in my boats have been "I don't like it when my butt comes off the seat, I feel like I am going to fly out".

Last edited by onesickpantera; 08-21-2007 at 11:20 PM.
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